Gloom and doom

[Taskmage]

re: Gloom and doom

From what I've seen and heard, this Alex Jones guy is a clown. I watched about half the interview until he drove me nuts by saying something based on fact, then following it up with some crazy whack-job speculation that only Glenn Beck would believe, thus discrediting the real facts people should genuinely be concerned about. As if the executive branch taking the power to execute US citizens without so much as a public accusation or presentation of evidence was somehow just not a good enough story by itself. But yes, some of what that guy said is basically, demonstrably true and it is pretty freaking nuts.

[Feba]

re: Gloom and doom

Whoah, really?

I know, it took me a couple months to realize Taskmage's facebook page wasn't satire.

[Raydeus]

re: Gloom and doom

Whoah, really?

[Taskmage]

re: Gloom and doom

When I said we had better places to spend money, I wasn't talking about allocation of federal funds. I thought my support for a more limited role of government was pretty clear, but I guess not. I meant that as a species there are probably wiser things we could voluntarily spend our time and energy on first.

I think that, for example, Dr Ballard makes a compelling argument for deep sea exploration (granted, he IS talking about federal money):

Basically, my line of thought is similar to Armando's. There is a lot more we can learn right here on earth, and we should probably get those things right before we move on. The frontiers of materials science, biotech, energy production, cybernetics, communication technology and artificial intelligence, to name a few, are just as exciting and inspiring to me as our future in space. It's not as though we as a people have stopped dreaming, we just aren't all as enthusiastic about the same dream as Dr Tyson.

---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

For future reference, I'm a Ron Paul libertarian. I probably make this more evident on my facebook feed than here.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

re: Gloom and doom

What, pray tell, "better things" do we have to invest tax dollars in?

Don't say education or improving government, either, each time we funnel more money into that things get worse. At least the space program was inspirational.

We certainly don't want the government investing on other things that inspire us, like how technology is evolving at the pace it is now - that's actually best off being driven by corporations and its pushing tech at such a pace its getting harder for corruption to hide itself anywhere. Its pushing it to a point where things are going to have to change fundamentally in government and business, forcing transparency instead of just asking for it.

We can already see them scrambling to control something that really can't be controlled and that scares them. I like that the internet, social networking, smartphones and tablets are connecting people even if it does breed an extra bit of social stupidity. It is good we can now have quick, accessible evidence against a lie right as its being uttered.

But we can do more and we need to understand the things that lie beyond the ozone layer. Telling ourselves we have more important things to do is just procrastinating and holding humanity back.

Why is it I'm told "we can't wait" for things on someone's agenda, but then told we can wait on the things that inspire people and capture the imagination of children? I was enraptured by each shuttle launch, well, except for the Challenger explosion in second grade. Traumatized classroom for a bit there. I switched by aspirations from astronaut to mailman after that.

And then postal workers started shooting up their worksplace.

Anyway, I think its something that shouldn't me ignored. If space exploration has to be privatized and done by corporations, at least it will be getting the job done where the government has failed and by "failed" i also mean whatever those "more important things" are to them.

[Taskmage]

re: Gloom and doom

Wasn't his point that it's in our best interests to change way tax dollars are allocated, rather than taking more money?

I don't think it's much better to be asking for a bigger slice of already stolen pie than to ask for additional pie to be stolen.

To the original topic:

[Melody]

re: Gloom and doom

Our Government.

Notice subject A - Chris was very hostile
Notice subject B - Quagmire questioned him
Notice Subject A - Chris instantly beating him down relentlessly


Now let us do that with our government.

[Armando]

re: Gloom and doom

I think there's a lot of tomorrows left here on earth, and there are lots of other places we could spend money to advance into the future that might be more efficient and reap better short-term gains. I also disagree strongly that a good way to go about developing space travel is to steal money out of everyone's paychecks via taxes and dump all of those eggs into one bloated and inefficient government-controlled basket. That's wrongheaded on many levels.

Wasn't his point that it's in our best interests to change way tax dollars are allocated, rather than taking more money?

Either way while I'm not against scientific progress and space exploration, I think we really need to rethink what we're doing on Earth before we can even think about colonizing a different rock. We're only just barely starting to be responsible with the environment; if we were to jump ship to a new planet or space colony as we are right now, I bet we'd just recklessly exploit our new environment just on the premise that we suddenly have such a huge new source of resources.

[Taskmage]

re: Gloom and doom

This is an interesting discussion.

Regardless of "conspiracy theories" or "Orwellian State", I have no idea what the truth is but the following video really hit a chord with me:

Of course Raydeus likes this post. NdGT is essentially giving LeLouch's last speech.

While I agree with the general social disease he refers to of people yearning for the past or clinging to the present instead of reaching for the future, and space exploration is obviously important for the long-term future of the race life, I think there's a lot of tomorrows left here on earth, and there are lots of other places we could spend money to advance into the future that might be more efficient and reap better short-term gains. I also disagree strongly that a good way to go about developing space travel is to steal money out of everyone's paychecks via taxes and dump all of those eggs into one bloated and inefficient government-controlled basket. That's wrongheaded on many levels.

---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

Neil DeGrasse Tyson is a badass, btw, and I'm not disputing that. I agree with almost everything he says. But as an astrophysicist I think he has an overwhelming bias towards the sky, which is understandable but needs to be accounted for.

[Shygirl]

re: Gloom and doom

God, I'm so thankful to be stuck in this country for what's most of my life.

[Takelli]

re: Gloom and doom

It's like with 9/11 really. People sympathized with the US, then they attacked Iraq. And then news of Osama working with the CIA surfaced.

A lot of people here think the US attacked themselves in order to justify their military actions. That's what I'm talking about when I say loss of credibility and good will. In this case Israel has gone so far that people that were sure the Holocaust happened are now wondering if they can even believe that part of history. It isn't stupidity, it's just natural distrust that surfaces when one does something that goes completely against the principles it's supposed to be upholding.

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist but... It's hard to dismis the evidence of the us attacking it self with 9/11, as well as this war on terrorism is actually a for oil. As well as bush being family friends with the osamas. It's a little hard to dismiss the hard evidence against it all.

[geogolem]

re: Gloom and doom

This is an interesting discussion.

Regardless of "conspiracy theories" or "Orwellian State", I have no idea what the truth is but the following video really hit a chord with me:

[Ketaru]

re: Gloom and doom

I don't think it's foreign interests that are egging the US towards a confrontation with Iran so much as the perceived interest of right-wing primary voters. It's Romney and Gingrich and certain elements of conservative media that are pushing this nuclear Iran angle as a distraction from the real problems the country has, which they can't speak to right now because economic numbers have been good-ish lately which makes Obama hard to criticise (except on the point of the pileup of civil rights abuses, but the GOP would do the same or worse if it had the chance so they don't bring it up). Even Israeli intelligence officers are coming out and saying our rhetoric is beyond the pale.

I was thinking about that and couldn't help but notice reducing the debt no longer seems to be the main pitch Republican candidates are using these days. Then, when it comes to jobs, I think there really isn't confidence that either party has any ideas about what to do about unemployment, despite the fact they sure say it a lot. Alas, between Gingrich and Santorum, it's Santorum who has the momentum and now it looks like there are people who want Gingrich to excuse himself from the race because apparently he's stealing votes from Santorum. It's insane, because Santorum resorts to all sorts of radical rhetoric to rile up the party. Yet he clearly does not have the savvy or experience that Gingrich has.

As I often say, I really thought Republicans had something going for them back in November. Now, they've become distracted by all this crap about contraception. Rush Limbaugh and free speech and all that. And the more left leaning keeps egging them on about the whole same-sex equality thing which has clearly gained momentum all of a sudden between marriage in some states and DADT. Some of them know they have to tread lightly. So they try to evade the question, like Michelle Bachmann. Santorum is obsessed with anal sex though, so he just can't resist making himself look as uncompromising to Catholics/Evangelicals as possible. And now that I know the right is actually willing to elect somebody like him, it has turned me off to the party immensely.

[Raydeus]

re: Gloom and doom

It's like with 9/11 really. People sympathized with the US, then they attacked Iraq. And then news of Osama working with the CIA surfaced.

A lot of people here think the US attacked themselves in order to justify their military actions. That's what I'm talking about when I say loss of credibility and good will. In this case Israel has gone so far that people that were sure the Holocaust happened are now wondering if they can even believe that part of history. It isn't stupidity, it's just natural distrust that surfaces when one does something that goes completely against the principles it's supposed to be upholding.

[cidbahamut]

re: Gloom and doom

Yeah, with all the stuff Israel has done both to Palestinians and to their neighbors in general you keep hearing more and more people speculating whether the Holocaust was even true.

That's just how much credibility and good will Israel has lost.

The people who question the holocaust are just as stupid as the people who blindly defend Israel. I really don't understand either end of that spectrum.