Gloom and doom

[DakAttack]

Re: Gloom and doom

Because terrorism.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Gloom and doom

Limbaugh Advertiser: Coordinated Effort To Ruin My Company Is ‘Internal American Terrorism’ | Mediaite
It begins. Or continues, depending on how you're keeping score. Here's some clown on Fox News complaining about how he and his company have received threatening emails in protest of their continued support through advertising of Rush Limbaugh's show in the wake of the whole Sandra Fluke fracas. Here's the thing, though: he labels the people who participated in this "terrorists." Now you may rightly think this guy is a joke or all of Fox News is a bad joke, but listen, some people take this shit serious and even those who aren't are highly susceptible to source amnesia. If more instances of people casually throwing out the word "terrorist" to describe a broader and broader range of activity they simply don't like start seeping into the media, that is going to change the definition of the word over time, and then a lot of rules and rationalizations that used to apply to a very specific class of criminal will start applying to damn near everyone.

Isn't that exactly what's been happening ever since Septermeber 12, 2001?

[Etra]

Re: Gloom and doom

I merged some threads because they ended up being about the same thing.

Anyway.

Limbaugh Advertiser: Coordinated Effort To Ruin My Company Is ‘Internal American Terrorism’ | Mediaite
It begins. Or continues, depending on how you're keeping score. Here's some clown on Fox News complaining about how he and his company have received threatening emails in protest of their continued support through advertising of Rush Limbaugh's show in the wake of the whole Sandra Fluke fracas. Here's the thing, though: he labels the people who participated in this "terrorists." Now you may rightly think this guy is a joke or all of Fox News is a bad joke, but listen, some people take this shit serious and even those who aren't are highly susceptible to source amnesia. If more instances of people casually throwing out the word "terrorist" to describe a broader and broader range of activity they simply don't like start seeping into the media, that is going to change the definition of the word over time, and then a lot of rules and rationalizations that used to apply to a very specific class of criminal will start applying to damn near everyone.

Video for those of you who hate reading:

[Taskmage]

Re: Gloom and doom

I merged some threads because they ended up being about the same thing.

Anyway.

Limbaugh Advertiser: Coordinated Effort To Ruin My Company Is ‘Internal American Terrorism’ | Mediaite
It begins. Or continues, depending on how you're keeping score. Here's some clown on Fox News complaining about how he and his company have received threatening emails in protest of their continued support through advertising of Rush Limbaugh's show in the wake of the whole Sandra Fluke fracas. Here's the thing, though: he labels the people who participated in this "terrorists." Now you may rightly think this guy is a joke or all of Fox News is a bad joke, but listen, some people take this shit serious and even those who aren't are highly susceptible to source amnesia. If more instances of people casually throwing out the word "terrorist" to describe a broader and broader range of activity they simply don't like start seeping into the media, that is going to change the definition of the word over time, and then a lot of rules and rationalizations that used to apply to a very specific class of criminal will start applying to damn near everyone.

[DakAttack]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

I left the statement open-ended, because I don't want to claim I know what the future is. But, you raise another good point, that it may not be the military the rich use against us.

[Taskmage]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

There's definitely a historical precedence that the rich will go to whatever lengths necessary to protect their money. Unfortunately for everybody else, money talks, and it can't be reasoned with. We've been seeing this for a long time.

That's not a refutation of my statement. Muammar Gaddafi had at last count over 200 billion dollars worth of assets and direct command over his country's military, and he had to resort to extra-national mercenaries when his armies refused orders and started defecting en masse. That's Libya. Nobody in the United States has that degree of concentrated wealth or authority over the military. It would not be possible by mandate or coercion to turn our volunteer army against its own people. At best they could be tricked into doing so, if you want to get real tinfoil-hatty, if the Guard was called out to control a large demonstration that contained undercover provocateurs a la the Tlatelolco massacre, but with the speed of information today, such a trick would only work once, and in today's political climate it would be the downfall of the establishment. The military would turn on the government just like in Libya.

[Malacite]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

Low profile, isloated takedowns I could believe. Using military force as a blunt instrument against its own people? Never gonna happen. Even if we got a president evil enough to want to, an army of Glenn Becks couldn't put enough spin on that story to make it anything but political suicide, and if he still tried the army would refuse the order. There's no comparison politically and culturally between the Syrian military and our own.

Exactly. There is such a thing as an unlawful order folks, and attacking civilians definitely crosses that line.

[Takelli]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

I could not have said it better my self Ray.

[Raydeus]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

Ya'll are fucking paranoid beyond belief.

Not that I agree with the NDAA at all, but what are you afraid of? If you're not doing anything suspicious and don't meet the criteria for being a terrorist, what's the problem? I wouldn't be surprised if the subject comes up repeatedly in the general election however, especially if/when they have any Youtube debates (I certainly hope it does).

As for the drones, there's already surveillance cameras almost everywhere you go - nevermind that the majority of cell phones now also have cameras. So what if drones are being used now? Is it really any different just because they can move? You've acting like they're going to use predators or reapers to bomb U.S. citizens.

See that's the thing, people still would like to believe they wont use written laws that way. Even Obama made a statement that his administration would never use it that way and detain US citizens like that. But conveniently enough there's no mention of that in the law and the law itself is so ambiguous you can use technicalities to imprison anyone since there's not even a defined criteria into the law.

Even further, if you are already being suspicious and fulfilling the criteria (which again, no one even knows what it is) to be labeled a "terrorist" why not simply charge you and trial you so you can also have the chance to defend yourself? Why do you need to be detained indefinitely, without any type of legal representation and potentially subjected to torture or "enhanced interrogation" as they call it for no other reason other than someone suspecting you may have ties to terrorism, whether it's real suspicion or made up? Because if they had any sort of evidence we would go back to the part where they don't want to charge you but skip the legal system altogether.

That's 3rd world laws and enforcement right there.

And armed drones are part of the program, it isn't just surveillance. Not only that, but cameras, choppers, and others are subject to transparency laws that do not apply to drones right now. And if people doesn't demand them they wont be implemented, not to mention corporate drones are also on the way.

Etc. etc.

You need to stop thinking the Government would never do this or that, because they will and they have. And you don't need to believe the theorists, just go and read the laws just like you did with SOPA/PIPA.




PS >And in case anyone is wondering why I'm paying so much attention to the US. It is because if the US goes down the path of a Fascist Corporate state Mexico (and maybe even Canada) is next. The plans to come help us with our cartel problems have been in the oven for years now.

[DakAttack]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

Low profile, isloated takedowns I could believe. Using military force as a blunt instrument against its own people? Never gonna happen. Even if we got a president evil enough to want to, an army of Glenn Becks couldn't put enough spin on that story to make it anything but political suicide, and if he still tried the army would refuse the order. There's no comparison politically and culturally between the Syrian military and our own.

There's definitely a historical precedence that the rich will go to whatever lengths necessary to protect their money. Unfortunately for everybody else, money talks, and it can't be reasoned with. We've been seeing this for a long time.

[Taskmage]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

Low profile, isloated takedowns I could believe. Using military force as a blunt instrument against its own people? Never gonna happen. Even if we got a president evil enough to want to, an army of Glenn Becks couldn't put enough spin on that story to make it anything but political suicide, and if he still tried the army would refuse the order. There's no comparison politically and culturally between the Syrian military and our own.

[Takelli]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

It's in history that this bs has happened before, and on recently. Just look at the facts.

[Malacite]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

Ya'll are fucking paranoid beyond belief.

Not that I agree with the NDAA at all, but what are you afraid of? If you're not doing anything suspicious and don't meet the criteria for being a terrorist, what's the problem? I wouldn't be surprised if the subject comes up repeatedly in the general election however, especially if/when they have any Youtube debates (I certainly hope it does).

As for the drones, there's already surveillance cameras almost everywhere you go - nevermind that the majority of cell phones now also have cameras. So what if drones are being used now? Is it really any different just because they can move? You've acting like they're going to use predators or reapers to bomb U.S. citizens.

[Raydeus]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

What do you think the NDAA is Mal? What are the drones and anti-protest laws for?

Just looking at how cops treat peaceful protesters do you really think they will refuse once they are ordered to shoot? The "I have a family to support!" type of excuses will fly all over the place.

Heck, for profit prisons are demanding a 90% occupation clause on the freaking contracts. You know things are bad when half the stuff Jones said years ago is actually happening all over the place and people doesn't even know about it because the media is too busy regurgitating entertainment news.

TL;DR Welcome to Mexico, Amigos! /sombrero

[Malacite]

Re: It's another government abuse thread. No wait, it's a technological marvel thread

Even Bush wouldn't be so brazen as to sick the army on its own people. Shit, I doubt (most of) your own military personnel would go along with it for that matter.