How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

[Murphie]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

You would. And you're in Japan. GOD, Feba. Could you at least try to be less gay?

[Ziero]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

To begin with, let's not exaggerate the degree of teacher involvement in the bullying overall; it was two teachers who made gay jokes about one straight student. That's two teachers, not half of the teacher population. As far as I can tell, the two teachers were disciplined (though not fired), and both went on indefinite, voluntary unpaid leaves. i.e. Those two problems teachers are gone. (Source 1 2)

I used the plural of "Teachers" because more then one (two!) were involved. But even if it was just one involved it still would have been an issue. When you can't trust your parents to help you deal with your issues, then you generally only have two options left, church or school. When your religion condemns you to hell and your teachers(even if it's just one) are the ones making fun of you, where else do you have to turn?

Did you read the article? The 2009 school policy in question:

Teaching about sexual orientation is not a part of the District adopted curriculum; rather, such matters are best addressed within individual family homes, churches, or community organizations. Anoka-Hennepin staff, in the course of their professional duties, shall remain neutral on matters regarding sexual orientation including but not limited to student led discussions.

Supposedly, that's the reason why the district has declined offers from some (unamed) LGBT groups, and this policy was faulted. That, was what I was responding to.

Not only did I read the article, and the policy, but I mentioned and agreed with the policy in an earlier post. Apparently you didn't read the article because the lgbt group who was pushing for the change in policy was named. Not only that, but a member and former teacher from the same District came up and spoke about the issue and the policy, even giving his own name. Unlike the religious zealots pushing to try and "fix" kids.

What I was doing was chiding YM for seeing the tree while ignoring the forest when it comes to bullying in school by myopically focusing one sub-population; I've no idea how you managed to read that into thinking I somehow think someone would be concocting such a silly thing as an anti-bullying campaign reaching out only to LGBT students.

...but when that one sub-population receives more violence and hatred then other sub-populations, doesn't that merit a bigger response to protect against it?

The fact is GET (the lgbt group pushing for a policy change) wants to bring in more programs to help both students AND teachers (and not through silly little DARE school assemblies) deal with bullying of all kinds. It's attentions were raised by the string of recent glbt suicides in a single district, but their intentions are to help everyone deal with these issues.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Not only did I read the article, and the policy, but I mentioned and agreed with the policy in an earlier post. Apparently you didn't read the article because the lgbt group who was pushing for the change in policy was named.

/sigh

the reason why the district has declined offers from some (unamed) LGBT groups

"Offers" there refer this phrase in the article: "offers by LGBT groups to provide education."

Yes, the articled (IIRC) named one group which is trying to change school policy. AFAIK, no, it did not name which LGBT groups made the 'offers' for 'education'.

And, no, I didn't recall your previous post; it didn't make any impression on me. Sorry. (Remember, I start posting in this thread in response to other people.)

...but when that one sub-population receives more violence and hatred then other sub-populations, doesn't that merit a bigger response to protect against it?

Well, let me turn this around: What do you think?

You just forcefully reminded me that you do support that school policy. Yet, any reasonable reading of that policy would mean coming down against the school wading into issues involving sexual identity, which means against any anti-bullying program with emphasis on LGBT students. Heck, a strict reading probably outright prohibits the district from even mentioning sexual orientation at all.

In light of that, how can the school district accept any LGBT group entering the school to promote any issue/program/etc.?

(Keep in mind the strict reading would also prohibit those groups who would evangelize heterosexuality.)

* * *

I understand why a school district would draft a policy like that, though I can't say I fully agree with it. While avoiding getting sucked into intractable (and unproductive) politic/cultural battles is a good goal, an information blackout on the topic of sexual orientation in high schools is about as realistic and useful as pretending high school students don't have sex and don't need information on safe sex.

* * *

Can anyone point to reliable information on demographics of LGBT? (And, explain why it's reliable? lol.)

I've seen homosexual and bisexual combined populations in U.S. described anywhere from under 5% to over 15%, and nothing on transgenders at all. Without a background with sociology's survey methods, even a cursory interpretation of the Wikipedia article is difficult.

[Murphie]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

You don't have to evangelize heterosexuality. That's the most retarded thing I've read this morning. It's everywhere. It is all pervasive. Everything about our culture, and certainly the culture of kids, even, "evangelizes" heterosexuality.

[Ziero]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

You just forcefully reminded me that you do support that school policy. Yet, any reasonable reading of that policy would mean coming down against the school wading into issues involving sexual identity, which means against any anti-bullying program with emphasis on LGBT students. Heck, a strict reading probably outright prohibits the district from even mentioning sexual orientation at all.

In light of that, how can the school district accept any LGBT group entering the school to promote any issue/program/etc.?

Simplest answer is to promote the programs that kids can turn to in the event of bullying, with regards to sexual orientation or not, without actually promoting...or decrying the actual sexual orientation. The school itself doesn't cause or participate in discussions of sexual orientation while the kids...and teachers even..are informed there are programs in place that can offer assistance and education in dealing with these issue outside of the school's specific influence.

These programs, or at least in my understanding, aren't just some silly stupid school assemblies or whatever, they're active side programs in place to help those with problems deal with them.

I understand why a school district would draft a policy like that, though I can't say I fully agree with it. While avoiding getting sucked into intractable (and unproductive) politic/cultural battles is a good goal, an information blackout on the topic of sexual orientation in high schools is about as realistic and useful as pretending high school students don't have sex and don't need information on safe sex.

As far as I'm concerned schools should have a hand in teaching about the science and repercussions of sex, but that's a whole different ballgame then discussing one's sexual orientation and how to deal with it. One is about teaching facts and the other is about sorting out one's emotions and desires. Being a far more personalized issue, that kind of stuff is best left as something discussed one on one with someone you can trust. If parents can't be that person and religion only makes it worse then the school should be able to point these troubled kids to someone who can help them. They keep their hands clean of the issue and kids get the support they need.

You don't have to evangelize heterosexuality

I think that was more in reference to the opposition promoting their religious views on the issue of heterosexuality.

[Murphie]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

It's still stupid.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Whoever added the "parsing real life is stupid" tag deserves http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/vid...tml#post896880.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

The school itself doesn't cause or participate in discussions of sexual orientation while the kids...

Er, but the school/district would still be the enabling agent, since they control the access of outside groups to the students on campus.

These programs, or at least in my understanding, aren't just some silly stupid school assemblies or whatever, they're active side programs in place to help those with problems deal with them.

I've been to an anti-bullying 'education' session before; the only thing I can remember is that it was very boring. Same with D.A.R.E., 9 out of 10 "motivational speakers", and bunch of others I can no longer recall.

The police outreach were kinda neat, though. I still remember (vaguely) the story of how five cops couldn't hold down one druggie who had smoked marijuana doped with PCP then went berserk. Actually, I think that was from a film, but a policeman later confirmed that combo can really do a number on some people in his experience.

Otherwise, most of these programs provided by those well meaning outside groups sucked. Badly.

* * *

Again, the same policy which keeps out the overly eager LGBT groups wanting to 'educate' the kids also keeps out the wacky religious right preaching that homosexuality is some sort of invitation for possession by the devil.

There's a bit of humor in seeing a single ostrich-head-in-the-sand policy frustrating both sets of would-be interlopers.

* * *

Edit:

Whoever added the "parsing real life is stupid" tag deserves http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/vid...tml#post896880.

lol. I don't think you'd like a world where intuition rules above all. "It can't rain without a reason. Must be a ... I know, rain god! He pours water down on our fields! We must pray for more!"

Like anything, the data driven approach has limitations, but works remarkably well when used correctly--especially as a sanity check.

[Aeni]

Re: How Inconsiderate Human Beings Can Be Truly Knows No Bounds

Damn right.

(And, each sampling method's shortfall should be documented as well.)

You realize that you're asking for the impossible? Religious, cultural and other societal norms (or social stigma) will prevent the majority of suicides from being reported and thus the only way one can gain that kind of information is through the state or local coroner. Even then, majority of local governments do allow the option for such data to be kept private should the family or related parties wish it to be. A lot of these deaths are just listed vaguely as, "the recently deceased <name>" or "<name> recently passed away" in most obituaries in newspapers and online news publications.

Good luck finding your absolute precise data.