The 1st annual D-Bag Award

[hexx]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

screw that....if these ass-hats protested one of my family members who died in the army (I don't have any but just saying) screw legal court, I would be beating the ass of the first one I could get my hands on. I know I would be going to jail, but I will guaranty you I would feel alot better.

I'm sure the majority here would share your sentiment Kailea, but you ending up in jail would only be a victory for them. You beat one (or several) of there members to a pulp, all you're doing is adding to their idea of martyrdom and screwing yourself and your family out of one more member (if one of your family had passed due to the war). It wouldn't keep them from protesting, and on top of that you would be in jail, and still one member of your family short due to death.

I extremely dislike the WBC (hate is too good for them) but at the same time blocking their right to peaceful protest would only obstruct EVERYONE'S overall freedom of speech even more.

To put it simply, it would open up one of the nastiest legal cans of worms in the history of the USA.

[Kailea]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

They allegedly spend $200,000 a year to picket funerals and seem to have a full itinerary. I mean, as much as I hate to let these fuckers even have a web hit, just look at this:

http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html

That's the next two months and the list is pretty full, I'd say they spend a lot more than $200,000 a year if each month is just as full.

Someone needs to follow the money, they really do. Where does it come from? That just blows my minds. There are no innocents here save for WBC's children.

I glanced at that schedule....and my god.... so much unnecessary hate, and thoughts so moronic I had to go take some aspirin after reading it -.-

On funding, I'd imagine plenty of journalists have already dug very deeply into that and found nothing-- what would make a better story than "WBC funded by <X political party, organization, group>!" etc.? And on the charge, apparently Bill O'Reilly has offered to cover their legal costs if the appeal is unsuccessful. But really, the idea of suing someone for exercising their free speech should be seen as instantly a bad idea by any American, regardless of how despicable that speech is.

screw that....if these ass-hats protested one of my family members who died in the army (I don't have any but just saying) screw legal court, I would be beating the ass of the first one I could get my hands on. I know I would be going to jail, but I will guaranty you I would feel alot better.

[Feba]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

I refuse to accept the notion that these are normal, innocent people - save for their children, since they're being indoctrinated with hatred by their parents. Again, these people are well-funded and suspiciously so. I'd say they have more money than the father that took them to court just from what I've observed about them.

Regardless, they have not been convicted of any crimes. In America, you are innocent until proven guilty, and I think you'd agree that innocent members to a legal dispute shouldn't be required to pay legal fees in any other case.

Their speech might be protected by the First Amendment, but its groups like there that have the power to diminish such rights by pushing the envelope too far. Again, look what happened with abortion and look at what's happened to our right to protest as a result Look how the DNC and RNC have used that issue to push protesters further away from earshot.

This judge is undermining our right of protest the more credibility WBC is allowed to have. After all, what's been the proposed solution to them? Let them protest further away - that's been the proposed solution.

You've got this backwards. What you want the judge to do is punish them for peaceful, constitutional protest. That is exactly what would undermine the rights of protestors in this country. If we allow the WBC to have to pay for costs like this, it's basically open season for those offended to tie up those they dislike in frivolous legal battles for the sake of draining their finances-- suspiciously large as they may be. Once we put in a system that effectively charges the WBC for their exercise of free speech, how long will it be until we see that expanded to Neo-Nazis, the KKK, anti-gay activists, and eventually to the point where protesting any societal group is hate speech which you can be fined for?

the proposed solution - pushing protesters further away - also be placed into law as a result.

Unlikely. Those are exactly the laws the Supreme Court would be ruling against. If anything, a Supreme Court verdict on the WBC may increase first amendment rights by setting standards in place that make the sort of "Protest Zones" used under the previous administration illegal. I really do not see the Supreme Court saying that Free Speech is only a right in some places some times anytime soon. And as those sorts of laws are unconstitutional, the only way they'd have any effect is if congress enshrined it in the constitution; and there's very very little chance that something that took away first amendment rights would have anywhere near enough support to pass.

On funding, I'd imagine plenty of journalists have already dug very deeply into that and found nothing-- what would make a better story than "WBC funded by <X political party, organization, group>!" etc.? And on the charge, apparently Bill O'Reilly has offered to cover their legal costs if the appeal is unsuccessful. But really, the idea of suing someone for exercising their free speech should be seen as instantly a bad idea by any American, regardless of how despicable that speech is.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

And the judge was asked to decide what is legal, not what is decent. No one here is saying what the WBC did was kind or should be encouraged. But it was not illegal, and why should an innocent party be responsible for paying to defend itself?

I refuse to accept the notion that these are normal, innocent people - save for their children, since they're being indoctrinated with hatred by their parents. Again, these people are well-funded and suspiciously so. I'd say they have more money than the father that took them to court just from what I've observed about them.

Their speech might be protected by the First Amendment, but its groups like there that have the power to diminish such rights by pushing the envelope too far. Again, look what happened with abortion and look at what's happened to our right to protest as a result Look how the DNC and RNC have used that issue to push protesters further away from earshot.

This judge is undermining our right of protest the more credibility WBC is allowed to have. After all, what's been the proposed solution to them? Let them protest further away - that's been the proposed solution.

Who is that adversely going to affect? Everyone else who wants to raise their voice in protest on an issue that affects them.

If and when this goes to the Supreme Court, they will rule in WBC's favor, too, but will the proposed solution - pushing protesters further away - also be placed into law as a result. If it does, the First Ammendment takes a serious hit and given WBC believes God hates America, that's a secondary victory for them.

People need to go beyond the surface issues and look at where these people get their funding, we have the right to know what the real agenda is. It won't be pretty if they keep winning in court and we keep approaching them just on a moral standpoint.

I do not believe these people are Christians and I do not believe the actually believe what they say. It is too stupid and outside of human dignity to act that way. They have this very brainwashed propaganda-like outlook. There is no reasoning with such people.

I mean, I don't see Neo-Nazi and the KKK picketing funerals for Jews and African Americans. Apparently because WBC is already there doing it, or maybe just because even they have to draw the line somewhere.

They have picketed gay soldiers, Heath Ledger, Issac Hayes, Bernie Mac, Matthew Shepard, Jerry Fallwell (despite his outspoken views on homosexuality, he believed in civil rights for everyone, so there ya go) and many more. They're actually banned from entering the UK, I hope other countries follow suit. They seem to hate America so much why give them the satisfaction of living anywhere else?

They allegedly spend $200,000 a year to picket funerals and seem to have a full itinerary. I mean, as much as I hate to let these fuckers even have a web hit, just look at this:

http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html

That's the next two months and the list is pretty full, I'd say they spend a lot more than $200,000 a year if each month is just as full.

Someone needs to follow the money, they really do. Where does it come from? That just blows my minds. There are no innocents here save for WBC's children.

[Kailea]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

Was that boy really protecting me? Or you? Or the WBC? I don't think it's smart to badmouth soldiers, and it's distasteful as all get-out to protest a fucking funeral, but let's not allow our emotions to cloud the truth.

I meant "protect" in a general sense, a country's soldiers are there to protect (or that's what they should be there for, but we all know how that turns out most of the time)

I don't get into this BS that much, so I am honestly not going to argue about what I said

no matter how you look at it, protesters protesting a soldier's funeral, then getting payed, because some incompetent judge ruled in their favor.....has to to be the most sad, and sick think I have heard this month.

I would love to tell this judge to his face, that he is a dumb ass, and a heartless bastered.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

I don't see IRS agents tarred and feathered

You're right, that is a problem this country has that needs immediate rectification.

[Cometgreen]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

There is law and there there is common sense and dignity. These people don't have to come out and picket funerals.

And the judge was asked to decide what is legal, not what is decent. No one here is saying what the WBC did was kind or should be encouraged. But it was not illegal, and why should an innocent party be responsible for paying to defend itself?

You can't possibly be serious.

I quite clearly am serious, or I would not have said what I said. What do you find so disagreeable about George III and so tyrannical about his reign? I'd say even in the 19th century, Americans suffered under far greater tyrannical rule than the colonists.

And have you stopped to listen to these people for even a moment? Like I said before, most of their concerns are 100% legitimate. It's how they present their cases that's ludicrous. The people crying about how Obama has "destroyed" America or is a Socialist etc etc.

To continue the above point, much of what the Founders rallied against was blown out of proportion or flat-out myth (the governor of Massachusetts, Thomas Hutchinson, dissected the newly written Declaration here). And, even worse than those nasty Tea Partiers (or leftists of a few years ago), they openly called for, and very often committed, violence and the destruction of property! I don't see IRS agents tarred and feathered, or private merchandise destroyed to make a political point. (not by civilians, anyway)

You don't protest the people protecting you

Was that boy really protecting me? Or you? Or the WBC? I don't think it's smart to badmouth soldiers, and it's distasteful as all get-out to protest a fucking funeral, but let's not allow our emotions to cloud the truth.

and a BIG GIANT FUCK YOU, to the Judge that ruled in the protester's favor......

How dare that judge do his job! He should rule by the gut, not by precedent or a plain reading of the Constitution.

As for this going to the Supreme Court, I agree with Feba that it's highly unlikely to be overturned. The Supreme Court has upheld the right of neo-Nazi's to march in a community full of Holocaust survivors; I don't see them ruling against such clearly established precedent.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

In that other topic about Westboro you said we couldn't separate WBC from other Christians

Actually, no he didn't. What he said was more along the lines of, whether we like it or not, these people are still technically Christian (members of a group). You can still quite easily separate a typical follower of Christianity from these absolute nut-jobs, however (distinguishing between members of a group).



From a political standpoint, I just hate the practically two-party system in general. People take issue with one side and immediately jump ship to the other, all too easily forgetting why they so recently jumped that ship in the first place. I blame Nohamotyo for this kind of thinly veiled stagnation; he's clearly getting some kind of massive compensation from the Democratic/Republican super-party. Some people call for something as extreme as revolt, insurrection, revolution - why, then, do we fail to see any practical action even as simple as deviation from the same old tired back-and-forth? And this is only one of many objections to the party system in America as we know it (or, heck, even at all!).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

Hardly. You can care about protests with merit, and mock the batshit silly people at the same time. Sort of like how goddamn near every American laughs at the WBC, but doesn't look at even Southern Baptists nearly as badly. Something most of us have developed, BBQ, is the ability to distinguish between members of a group.

Feba, I'm saying this in the nicest way, but you've been wearing the Bill Mahar hat too much.

In that other topic about Westboro you said we couldn't separate WBC from other Christians, but here you say we can distinguish batty Tea Party people from the real concerned protesters. Distinguishing is separating. You cannot have it one way on one issue and then it another way on the next.

And that's not even really getting at what Obama said. The videos are up on CNN, Fox News and everywhere for you to see what he said about the rallies on April 15th and the DNC fundraiser in Florida. You'll see that he didn't distinguish at all, but generalized the lot of them. He cited "rallies," not the fringe. There wasn't a special nutjob rally last I checked.

To say people should thank him for the tax cuts he didn't make (the tax cuts we have now are still Bush's); to gloss over the fact that big taxes are coming through the legislation he, the democrats and the RINOs pushed through and then to act like those against him just don't understand what's going on is to mock them.

We just don't understand his wonderful ideas, that's really the problem, right? Yeah, people just organized these numerous tea parties over a large misunderstanding, that's totally it. He's figured them out.

People know what's going on, we know what this is about. That's why at present democrats lost all support from independents in every poll out there. And I wouldn't hold out hope for incumbent RINOs in the polls, either. That's a rather notable loss, I'd say. They certainly lost me and I do vote Democrat at times and did vote for some in 2008. Sure as hell regret that one.

Get these people out, get the RINOs out. Set up congressional term limits for certain, I don't think anyone would disagree that the sooner we get the baby boomers out and instate limits, the safer we'll be from the trust-fund babies that could follow the boomers in the years to come. We let these people stay in congress too long and they get out-of-touch because of it. It needs to stop.

[Feba]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

Mocking them shows he just doesn't give a damn.

Hardly. You can care about protests with merit, and mock the batshit silly people at the same time. Sort of like how goddamn near every American laughs at the WBC, but doesn't look at even Southern Baptists nearly as badly. Something most of us have developed, BBQ, is the ability to distinguish between members of a group.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

You do realize that Obama's entire political career consists of being in the legislature of one of the most corrupt states in the union, and then being elected to the US Senate (within that same corrupt state), right?

And that his political tactics are exactly the same - bully and mock those that disagree with you. Plus I don't doubt for a second the church Obama attended for 20 years helped form his views. Rev. Wright led the church Obama attended - just go look at some of what that guy says. That church isn't far off from WBC in the "batshit insane" territory.

Really, this is a list of the church's values. It starts out all right and then eventually descend into the crazy "white people holding us down" stuff:

Trinity - BLACK VALUE SYSTEM

Basically if any church had "White" values, they would be jumped on in seconds. Lump this in with the Chicago-style politics and we have a big jerk for president. Oh, the MLK Jr. Speeches were cute when they served their purpose, but we're not seeing those now.

What we see now is more like a pathetic stand-up comedy act with canned laughter.

That said, Obama mocked protesters on Thursday at a DNC fundraiser. Outright mocked them. Mocking them shows he just doesn't give a damn. An attitude reflected in Congress, which is why we'll be taking care fo them first.

Laugh it up now, keep laughing. The People get the last laugh in November.

Yeah, we're not getting taxed badly now - that's because the Bush Tax cuts are still here for the middle class are still here - but people see the writing on the wall from what will be in-place from September 2010 onward. The money for these programs has to come from somewhere and governments can't generate it without taxes. The more we get taxed, the tighter we'll pull our purse-strings.

So that means things like the proposed VAT tax - which has never helped any country, ever - will fail. We will spend less if we have to. If we spend less, additional revenue from taxes does not reach the government and things don't get done.

[mloney]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cometgreen
...What? Have we invaded Iran now?

No, though it's a distinct possibility. My point was more of how they would be treated there or any other islamic fundamentalist state.

The biggest thing the WBC protests is gays. Which is highly illegal in any islamic country( carries a death penaty ). So i doubt they would have much trouble in iran.

What's worries me though is they do all this in the name of god.

[Kailea]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

I dont know anything about all the politics and legal issues here, but I only see this in the pure moral sight.....


You don't protest the people protecting you

and you don't disturb someones funeral, I don't care who it is that died.

and a BIG GIANT FUCK YOU, to the Judge that ruled in the protester's favor......


this kind of crap really flares me up -.-

[Feba]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

My point was more of how they would be treated there or any other islamic fundamentalist state.

You're right, we really oughta prove how superior our morals, convictions, and ideals are by treating them like Iranians would.

I maintain that the heart of America's troubles lies within Congress. Corporate dollars have long since bought out any decency and sense of duty there may have once been within it's halls

You do realize that Obama's entire political career consists of being in the legislature of one of the most corrupt states in the union, and then being elected to the US Senate (within that same corrupt state), right?

[Malacite]

Re: The 1st annual D-Bag Award

This is obviously open to debate, as we first have to settle on a definition of tyranny, but I would say the federal government of the US is far more powerful and intrusive than the British government circa 1770. I would gladly welcome the political system of 1770s colonial America. Taxes were being cut by the British, political power was largely decentralized... it doesn't sound too shabby.

You can't possibly be serious.

...What? Have we invaded Iran now?

No, though it's a distinct possibility. My point was more of how they would be treated there or any other islamic fundamentalist state.

Surely, if you have something disturbing, you can share it. I mean, if its common knowledge and this evidence is everywhere, so out with it. I'm sure I would have seen in on CNN or Youtube by now, but I haven't.

10 Most Offensive Tea Party Signs And Extensive Photo Coverage From Tax Day Protests (PHOTOS)

You don't think "White Slavery" is just a bit extreme? Then there's the racist signs about sending him back to Kenya... keeping in mind it's a very small fringe that's doing this of course, but there are a lot of ridiculous signs that are either stretching the truth or just outright wrong.


And have you stopped to listen to these people for even a moment? Like I said before, most of their concerns are 100% legitimate. It's how they present their cases that's ludicrous. The people crying about how Obama has "destroyed" America or is a Socialist etc etc. You might want to do some actual fucking research 1st, because if you did you'd realize that America has a lot of socialist ideas in place, in some cases dating all the way back to Benjamin Franklin & the public library.

Socialism is not Communism, get that through your thick skulls. Nor is single-payer "Government Run Healthcare." But then I'm willing to bet most of these people couldn't point us out on the fucking map.

I maintain that the heart of America's troubles lies within Congress. Corporate dollars have long since bought out any decency and sense of duty there may have once been within it's halls people really need to start paying closer attention to what their elected officials are doing. It would probably do a world of good to remove that stupid filibuster rule once and for all too.

Seriously, why should the party in power need an overwhelming majority to get anything done? That kind of cockblocking is not what the founding fathers had in mind.(It happens a good deal around here too though we also have a parliament with 5 parties waving their pricks at each other - _ - Man I can't wait to vote Harper's ass out...)

And yes, I do acknowledge to a point that you can't just keep blaming the previous administration for the current problems and at some point this is (if not already) going to be Obama's problem. The weird thing to me is that he's more or less in the same position Reagan was, with the key difference being Obama was handed this problem where as Reagan had caused it.