Obama's Speech on Race & America

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

My ass they want to be left alone. Their the ones who started the issue in the first place. They emigrated as slaves from eqypt, drove out the original settlers in the middle east and established a colony. They were the first to cast a stone. Now they have been pushed around for centuries and suddenly we need to leave them alone. I they wanted to be left alone greenland is pretty big. Why not go there where there is no one for miles. Instead of placing a western backed Jewish Nation in the heart of a prodominitly muslim region.

The door swings both ways and until they leave the muslims alone in the region then the muslims there have every right to defend themselves. CNN is probably the most white washed name in news next to fox. There little show last night on 5 years after trys to make america out to be hero's when it has done nothing but destroyed the country of Iraq. The coverage on the lebanese skirmish in '06 was heavily biased against the patriots defending themselves against the Israelis. wether or not an organization kidnapped 2 israelis does not provoke an attack on beruit, the capital of lebenon (that is no where near the border, nor where the incident took place). Isreal killed thousands of innocent people in the name of "freedom" and you expect them to be left alone.

The cries for Israel to be wiped from the map are as equal to the US and its Allies claims that the insurgency in Iraq must be squashed. Both these instances are remarkably similar. Israel has conduced many acts of terror in the region, as have the "Insurgents". How is it remotely ethical to wipe away people who are trying to defend their nation, and not allow people the wish to wipe Israel out to defend theirs. Its fundemently flawed. Great Satan indeed. The wishes and views from America and her allies are pushed down the throats of people who wish to run their live the way they wish too. Forcing feeding them western and Christian Ideals is a flawed way to spread the notion of peace and freedom.

I dont know if you have had the chance to read the bible, or the kharan. I have read both.

Prodominitly Christian nations such as america have their laws and rights. The commandments and other suggestions based throughout the bible are embeded within those laws and rights.

Muslim nations are the exact same, thier Kahran states that women have no power so that is one of their fundamental laws.

What right do other nations have to push their rhtoric on another. This is no different then the conquest era when european countries pushed their ideals on the nations they conquerd. The Zulu war in Africa was a resault of the British pushing thier policy on a nation that id not wish to have it. The Native american wars are of the same thing.

Obama talks highley about change and bridging the Gap but I have not heard him speak of bridging a religous gap nor a ethical gap. Only a race gap. I have not heard any candidate talk of how they will restore peace to Iraq or the middle east, possibly because they cant cope with the fundamental difference between the nations.

The Western Nations consider themselves supperior as does the UN. If you look at the past, western nations have since the begining of this age (A.D., B.C.E) tried to impose their rhtoric on the mid east and african nations.

A over haul of Internaional Unity is what this president needs to bring to the table, a restructering of how we precive ourselves. The war in Iraq is the 5th Crusade nothing more than oe nation trying to impose its values on another. Its disgusting.

On the other side of the spectrum you have the muslims who up until 9/11 according to claims (there has never been any doccumented martirial supporting facts for this claim) have done nothing to provoke attacks. The US invading Iraq in Gulf War was the straw that broke the camels back. It would not have been an issue had they sat on the border in kuwait and defended it there. Instead they inflamed the middle east by an act of aggresion against one of there nations. The same act of agression that was shown when Lebenon, Jordan, Egypt, and Palastine got territory cut for the nation of Isreal.

[Malacite]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

I'm not buying a word of that BS >_>


The Jews just want to be left alone, and that's a fact.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

This is very iffy. I for one fully support Israel because they bought that land from the Palistinians so the Jews could finally have a safe haven to call their own, yet everyone in that hell hole dirt bag region wants them wiped off the face of the Earth for no good reason other than they are Jewish and they don't see eye to eye on religion.

On the "buying" the land, this is not true. The UN (established shortly after WW2 replacing the league of nations) Created Isreal on the west bank, creating a sort of "refugee nation" for them to go to were they wouldnt be persecuted. Originally Isreal and Palastine were seperate nations living sid by side. However it took only less than 20 years with US training, backing, and thousands of US weapons of war for them to redraw their own boundries which to today include: The former nation of palestine, A portion of mideastern egypt providing acces to the suez canal, extended boundries into lebenon, and jordan. These revision were bought with blood in a war started by Isreal, however were redrawn again by the UN as an apeasement to the jews for their hardships in WW2.

Fast forward to 2006, Jewish army crosses into Lebenon and soilders are captured. This is considered an act of war by many nations. This sparks Isreal into firing rockets and bombarding lebenon. Out of the wood work come the lebanese patriots, to fight back against Isreal. These patriots of lebenon are considered terrorist by Isreal and her allies (USA). For 40 years Isreal has like the United States, commited far more acts of terror then the nations around them. However when the rockets start hitting home it suddenley becomes, the stone throwers who are terrorist.

Isreal has absolutley no sympathy from me as does the United States post 9/11. You reap what you sow. If you oppress people long enough and consider their walks of life inferior and try to change that, eventually they will rise up and respond. You use terror, to change people minds, however it may be indirect, the fact is you are using it.

November,2005

US military kills 24 unarmed civilians in a savage attack on a homestead.

This is why we need the troops out because its not a question of what will happen if we do get them out. But more of a question of what will happen if we don't

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Yes what he said was way out of line, but no it does not necessarily reflect the views of his church and those who attend it. More the point, that was 10 seconds of an entire sermon, one of many that he would do throughout the week. As I understand it, Wright was a very well respected man and even praised for some of his sermons. Plus, the guy is old and has seen a lot of shit so I think it would be a bit of a stretch to say that that kind of hateful speech was the main focus of all his sermons.

I seriously doubt anyone would regularly attend them otherwise.

THANK YOU

I wish I could give you like, a million Thanks Clicks right now.

Firstly, leave it to the media to:
A) Show only a few seconds of a sermon, that easily lasts at least an hour, even in churches that have multiple sermons (and with the amount of membership in churches such as the Reverend's, it's possible, because I know my church at home has 3..).
THEN:
B) Have a week long analysis of the snippet and blow it out of proportion.

The media has been in love with Barack for so long, they seem to have forgotten that he is a Black man, so the minute an associated Black man starts talking with fever and passion, the shields come up, and White America gets paranoid again.

Recall how (positively) "shocked" we were when Wayne Brady was on the Dave Chappelle show and he was using the N-word and cursing. I never saw that side of Wayne Brady, so it made for good entertainment. With the singing and charming demeanor, it's easy to forget that Wayne Brady is another brotha from Orlando, who had to use his talents to achieve more than what was thought possible of his peers.

Barack's story is the same story of any affluent Black man. It's easy for non-Black members of America (even this message board) to say things such as, "Stop using the Race Card," "We're not doing/saying this because he's Black."

Shit, it's easy for people to look at me, being in a Greek Organization, and say "I wouldn't have done that." "How could you go through something like that." "I would've just left." "Fuck that."

Point is, it's always easy to look from the outside and judge.

Here we have Barack on one hand. Charming. Eloquent. Inspiring. "I really think he can pull America together." "He's so great, he's not tainted by Washingtonian." Etc Etc Etc. People generally love the man.

Then enter an outspoken Black man: a Community Leader that can easily rally thousands of people to whatever cause he wants because he's articulate and a Reverend, and no one dare go against a man that can indirectly prove that God wants you to do a certain thing AND be believable.

Quite frankly, if White America wasn't so scared right now, this wouldn't be a big deal. Fear tactics work both ways. Nothing is threatening about Barack in terms of the persona we've come accustomed to. You add in the possibility of a Black man, angry about the oppression and the general oblivious nature of the rest of the country, then the pot starts to get some spices.

Anyone who says "racism doesn't exist anymore, stop trying to play that card," lives in the world of Win-Dixie, because racism is prevalent even when you aren't looking for it.

Even as a Campus Leader, I still get type-casted whenever I walk in a room of people that don't know me.

I know how aggravating it is when words get twisted out of proportion, and this Reverend Wright nonsense is just more distracting fodder. As soon at the media said, "His words almost sound Farrakhanian," I lost what dwindling respect I had for half of the pundits on CNN.

[Malacite]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

2. USA provides Isreal with weapons and money to defend itself (documented fact). But what is defending yourself when you toss the first blow. Isreal started the 6 day war (with egypt,syria,jordan) the retalition from the allied nations against isreal resaulted in a short war, the victor being Isreal mainly due to superior american military equipment and american money to back it. The resault had Isreal playing the "Jew-Card" claiming they were being assaulted and attacked by the other nations (no doccumented proof of these claims) The Boundries were redrawn to inclyde former parts of Jordan and footings into the suez canal. It also put palestine directly into the nation of isreal. The US sponsered mid east watchdog is the most powerful nation in the mid east and activley flexes its mussle by oppresing (doccumented) the palestinians. When the palestinians respond to the opression they are considered terrorists and jihads. However Isreal is considerd just in its persecution and murdering of innocent civilians, based on accusation of terror.

This is very iffy. I for one fully support Israel because they bought that land from the Palistinians so the Jews could finally have a safe haven to call their own, yet everyone in that hell hole dirt bag region wants them wiped off the face of the Earth for no good reason other than they are Jewish and they don't see eye to eye on religion.

As far as I'm concerned they can all burn in hell. Leave the Jews alone already, they've done nothing to deserve the kind of oppression they have faced since the dawn of time. No one has the right to wipe out any other race, period.



And Ty WM. Honestly, why does it even bother people? Do they honestly think that this whole time Barack has been lying, that he's secretly a hater? I don't think anyone who really was as hateful as some people seem to think would be able to pull off what Barack has.

There was one really good letter on the Cafferty File, where a woman was talking about how her father would use ethnic slurs about anyone who wasn't middle-class and white enough to him and asks if she should have left home. Honestly, people are reading into this way too much.

Yes what he said was way out of line, but no it does not necessarily reflect the views of his church and those who attend it. More the point, that was 10 seconds of an entire sermon, one of many that he would do throughout the week. As I understand it, Wright was a very well respected man and even praised for some of his sermons. Plus, the guy is old and has seen a lot of shit so I think it would be a bit of a stretch to say that that kind of hateful speech was the main focus of all his sermons.

I seriously doubt anyone would regularly attend them otherwise.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

The whole Dr. Reverend Jeremiah Wright (please show some respect and use the man's titles) scenario is blown way out of proportion. Anyone who things that Obama is going to win America by having a mindset like that is not only ignorant, but paranoid as well.

Obama has given no inclination that he thinks that way. You'd think that in 2008, a Black man running for President wouldn't be a big deal, but here goes the media starting their shit show again.

I'm tired of hearing about Dr. Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

I figured this would be an acceptable place to start an offshoot discusion.

What do you think about the things that Jerimiah Wright said.(ie. chickens comming home to roost, white america vs black america)?

His post 9/11 speech is what I would like to talk about as I figure Obama makes the other question seem answered.

In this speech, which he is being accused of being anti american etc. He makes the claim that the USA brought on 9/11 itself. Using many examples (Nuking Japan, Soliciting violence against palastine, and the slaughter of blacks in africa)

Im going to hit on all of these things.

1. The Nuking of Japan

- In a ough total nearly 680,000 innocent civilians were killed by the 2 bombs dropped on hiroshima, and nagasaki. These were non combatants who were brutally slaughtered by america in the summer of 1946 (august 6th and 9th). There has been no formal appology, nor reimbursment to japan for the mass loss of life nor the mass destruction caused. Often times this is rebutled by "They attacked us in pearl harbour by suprise." Well it is a documented fact US patrol boats sunk a japanese war vessel thus and act of agression from a neutral state. The retaliation by the japanese was swift and just wiping out military targets in the pacific at pearl harbour. The differences between these attacks was the japanese targeted american military targets where the americans attacked civilians directley to terroize (which was what the plan was the usa wanted to scae japan from the war) the population (an act of terrorism)

2. USA provides Isreal with weapons and money to defend itself (documented fact). But what is defending yourself when you toss the first blow. Isreal started the 6 day war (with egypt,syria,jordan) the retalition from the allied nations against isreal resaulted in a short war, the victor being Isreal mainly due to superior american military equipment and american money to back it. The resault had Isreal playing the "Jew-Card" claiming they were being assaulted and attacked by the other nations (no doccumented proof of these claims) The Boundries were redrawn to inclyde former parts of Jordan and footings into the suez canal. It also put palestine directly into the nation of isreal. The US sponsered mid east watchdog is the most powerful nation in the mid east and activley flexes its mussle by oppresing (doccumented) the palestinians. When the palestinians respond to the opression they are considered terrorists and jihads. However Isreal is considerd just in its persecution and murdering of innocent civilians, based on accusation of terror.

3. Deaths from american sponserd africa governments

It is a well documented fact that the usa has a history of replacing certain african leaders with leaders of their choice. It is also a well documented fact that some of these leaders they put in charge are acctually genocidal manicas. It is documented that these leaders have commited large acts of genocide against predominitly muslim blacks. yet this induced terrorism goes unpunished by the watch dog of terror that the americans have now become.

*Random Fact*

How did the CIA know Iraq had WMD's

Because they sold them to them.

In the Iran-Iraq war, the USA backed Saddam Hussein, acctually they helped him to retain power in his country in the 1980's (documented fact). The United States provided Iraq with military equipment Long range Balistic Missle (SCUDS) and access to biological agents to use in dire circumstances. Their target, Iran, backed by the USSR. (this is typically considered to be the final war of the cold war.) The united states however had overlooked sadam's true intentions and sick mind. However often portrayed as a genocidle manic. The killing of his own people was no different then what the USA sponsered in Isreal. The Kurds who lost alot of power at the hands of americas string pulling commited attacks on saddams content citizens. However How can this be wrong and Isreal not be, well the fact is since the cold war was over the USA had no need of saddam or his country and broke ties with him and began sanctions to him and his nation.

The Honorable Reverand has a very valid arguement wether those who dont wish to see it, see it or not. For the last 62 years the United states has commited more acts of terrorism than any other nation in the world. From dropping nukes, all the way up to imposing radical leaders selling them weapons, and letting them remain in power after they have no use for them anymore. The good Rev. hit a mighty good nail on the head and is nowbeing considered anti american. The fact is americas chicken's have come home to roost. Karma.

Oh and the implications of his entire rant and rave look no further to the great comandment (that exists in all major religions around the world)

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

or as my good buddy Jesus puts it

An eye for an eye

on a closing note, "Let he without Sin cast the first Stone" here is an interesting take on that:

Simply sub girl with (terrorist nation)
and Scribes and Pharisees with the USA

The "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" incident is one of the most well-known lessons of the Bible. A woman, who had been caught in the act of adultery was brought to Jesus Christ by the scribes and Pharisees as a test to see if the Messiah was a liberal in matters of the Law of God. In response to their deceitful query, He didn't condemn the woman, not because He was a liberal, not because He condoned her sin, but because the men who brought the woman to Him were Hypocrites. He was the only person there that day who was free of sin, the only one who had the right to "cast the first stone." He didn't stone her (or her accusers), but instead forgave her and told her to "sin no more." Otherwise, the day is coming when she, if she didn't thereafter repent, won't be stoned, but will be burned - along with the hypocrites who brought her to Him that day, if they didn't thereafter repent of their sin:

[Akashimo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

HRC has evil eyes. I do not trust that woman. Her eyes terrify the fuck out of me, like.... like pictures of aliens (grays) do. It's the same dread. That woman is not right.

Makes me think of what my government teacher said about canidated on how people tend to vote. The taller one or one who would end up being the popular halloween mask. Remember Nixon and Clinton?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Congress fits very much because you state that all they do is talk about it. Well, that's all the Democratic candidates can do, because again, the executive branch is currently the stumbling block. The information on how each candidate wants to approach the Iraq situation is readily available on the internet. You want them to do something other than talk... well, what can they do?

No actually Congress wasn't in any of the above conversations. We were talking about presidential nominees and their lip service. I know where Congress is going and how they wheel and deal, now I want to see some solid commitment from our nominees. I previously said that I would like to see a good solid fleshed out plan for the situation in Iraq but the problem is no one has one. They hem and they haw and they make vague generalizations but a plan of action....nope. Can't do that until we know who's ass needs the most kissing. The issue with Iraq is like the roots of a tree, there are so many tendrils that are snaked out in so many directions that there is no way its going to be quick.....or painless. Politicians have to be careful about who's toes they step on so their little speeches are always just lip service.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Well either way whichever one wins they need to put huckabee on the balot. This bi partisan warfare Is complete BS. Its one of the reason for the seperation that occurs in america, just like in obamas speech, Its time to bridge the gap, the country is in complete tatters. A man held an open speech on night, you may know him you may not. His name was Gwynne Dyer a ver prominent political columnist in many of the worlds papers. He held this conference in 2001 shortly after the 9/11 incident. This man spoke about the iraq war, the axis of evil (iraq,iran,N.korea) even prior to the white house comming forth and saying it. This man said the USA would probly go to war with one of the three, and designated Iraq as its first target. (Before the war began). This man claimed political presures would be placed on NKorea and Iran over the course of the next decade. (Which has happened. He also spoke very heavily on the bi partisenship that rocks this nations core, splits it like an earthquake. Hespoke of this nation like all great nations before it, Like an old tree it would rot from the inside out. Like Rome who lost its outlying lands because of internal conflict. Like England who lost her lands to tyranny and unrest from the home land. He said so to will be the fate of america. He claimed it was time to mature, The choldhood years of revolution were long past, the teenage years of growth and abundance were over, the midlife was comming to a close where lose ends and preperations were laid for the future. The time has come, america is in its autumn years, and like the nations before it, It must choose it's future. It can be like an old man who withers away sheltered from his problems rotting away on the inside, or it can be like the old tree tho rotting away on the inside keeps root and drops seeds of hope. Hope that will blossom into a great forest that will stand for another 100 years.

He went on to provide two comparison of Americas last great change, of the death of the last old tree, but unlike the old man it gave birth to a new set of dreams and spawned a forest. He was refering to of course the 1960's when america's seperation of persons reached its boiling point, he said that through the seeds of hope from many that a new fores grew, that new hopes and dreams would flourish and make this land great. This was also the downfall of segregation as the new seeds bloosomed america grew strong again.

He also claimed that the revolution that marked the era of the "teen age" years, was in 1963, when the USA was split into two, the confederation, and the union. A war took place and compromises were reached and a new tree was born as the old one died.

What needs to be done is a gap needs to be bridged, a political gap. The vast differences in the politics are causing this country to split apart and burn from the inside. All it would take would be a comprimise between the two parties a decloration of joint policies, something that is good for all americans on both sides of the fence.

Until this happens the united states will continue to decay like and old tree, and without providing any hopes or seeds for the future, will end up like the frail old man locked away in his shelter from the outside world.

[Telera]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Honestly, the only reason I'd go with Obama is because he's the lesser of the evils.

I mean, HRC is a lying bitch who's basically trying to win the election by copying what other people are doing and hoping it works.

McCain is four more years of Bush.

Obama at least has no problem admitting his mistakes (and even revealing them), although who knows if that will carry over once he's in office.

Really, though, it's impossible for me to trust any political candidate who doesn't intend to remove the 'candidate' part from politics.

Sums up my opinion completely. No point in adding more other than what I said before:

HRC has evil eyes. I do not trust that woman. Her eyes terrify the fuck out of me, like.... like pictures of aliens (grays) do. It's the same dread. That woman is not right.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Im only angry when it comes to the joke that is the american election. I mean 1 person can veto anything that he dosent like, even if it was passed by the peoples representitives. 2 states dont count in the electoral process, although it was agreed to by the candidates. (now HRC is reniging because she needs them to win). To top it all off we get this wonderful little thing called super delegates so regardless of how the country votes on a candidate a small group of people hold the power to change that. If the process was done today Obama would have won, but wait these super delegates can back HRC and have her win trumping all american voters. It is a fucking joke, and in the end it boils down to the fact that 1 person gets the power to veto every thing and pass what they like. Thats a bigger joke. Didn't millions of people die 65 years ago to bring us freedom, was ww2 a sham. What is the difference between what the USA has now to what Facism, and Communism have? Hell the Patriot Act virtually strips every american of thre rights and freedoms so thats not it, and we have one person who calls all the shots. Who can be elected without a popular vote, all they need is the big number states that the electorate has deemed more important. Arguably the size of the state is the reason why this is but still. If it wasnt for the bullshit electoral process "Dubya" wouldnt even be in office, and daddys little war wouldnt have been continued. Suprisingly tho, a skeptical, Florida vote in 2000, and Ohio vote in 2004, resaulted in his victory both times. (Both times without the popular vote). It is a fucking joke, flawed system, may as well just get evryone to piss into a double nozzled funnel and elect people on how full the buckets on the other end get.
______________________________

______________________________
allow me to quote the great fench protestors re: the iraq war

"George Bush, L'oncle SAM Irak sera le votre Vietnam"

Roughly Translated it means this

"George Bush, Uncle Sam Iraq will be your vietnam"

Regardless what happens with bush leaving the house Uncle Sam is how they say Knee deep in Shit. I dont care who the elect the troops are tied up for at least another half decade. You watch the pullout will start around the end of the 4th year of the term for that almighty re election ticket. A US president has never been replaced in war time and probably never will. (except those that couldnt help it deaths, fuck ups *cough* nixon)

[jwalton]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

I see your temper tantrum above, but it conflicts with your mood:



I'm just a bit puzzled!

Edit: Oh yeah, and since you're a Huckabee lover and seem to love everything the guy says, you should watch this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFLOu8fjxU[/ame]

Around the 3:40 mark is about where he starts talking about the Obama speech. The gist of it: this whole deal is a nonissue, and though it's become an issue, Obama handled it properly.

[MrMageo]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Mal your hero is on cnn, slightly back pedling its quite good. Gotta win that white vote back.
______________________________
As to the conversation at hand I watched the CNN newsroom team talking today about recent talks to get oil money from Iraq to pay for the war. Its all nice and lovely how things seem to be getting tied up here in the end of a 2nd term war. If Iraq agrees to foot this bill the GWB and friends have won a major ecconomic victory. Instead of impossing taxes on their own companies (ie. Haliburton) they can now reap the benifits of the entire oil reconstruction business they have been involved in , in Iraq. The saudi's make out with quite the chunk of change from providing all zee oil for the war machine. (note the bush family is very friendly with saudi princes). Who is left holding the purse string, why the american people of course. The same people who have paid for the procurement of 50,000+ new government jobs (while they are losing theirs).

Where do all the candidates stand on this, lets see I have watched every single telivised debat both republican and democrat. Neither side has an effective plan on how to reimburse the public for this cost. Where are the talks of lucrative war bonds, where are the talks about reimbursement checks paid out to the middle class who foot the largest portion of this neglegent war. There have been talks of reimbursemnt checks from the current whitehouse, 600 whoping dollars. That goes to the rich people as well who pay the least amount of tax and have been hit the least in this war.

Not a single candidate save Huckabee have talked about their plans. They hit on the idea, ex. Iraq pull out. Where is the strategy even a glimpse at it. Or do they plan to leave it 5-6 months into the term and get the egg heads to think something up. This entire presidency from 9/11 till now has been the greatest ecconomic ruse in american history. The current candidates bicker over how to spend more money. The USA is now the most in debt country in the G-8 (the most lucrative countries in the world.) even more so than russia. Yet the candidates bicker over nafta, unfourtunatly Nafta is the only thing keeping the country alive right now. Imagine having to pay for every import from canada. (who is completely self sufficent on its own)

The Ressecion that has been looming since 2001 is n full swing, 600 dollars from the govt to offset the cost. Whoopee that pays for a couple weeks of gas so I can get to and from my job I may or may not have tomorrow. Gas is so expensive people buy more fuel efficient cars, the stark contrast between cost of asian and NA vehicles has driven the auto sector in america into shambles. Michigan, Ohio, PA, New York, and Ontario (canada) have been deeply affected by this. Wheres the talk on lowering prices of fuel, where is the policies on the ecconomic releif to the people that have lost jobs because of this war. Where is the policies on finding a strategy to revive the american auto market.

These candidates save Huckabee have tossed out issues and ideas with no policy behind them. Instead they go off and make redundant Race speeches, Argue over a simple plan like health care. Everyone gets government sponsered Innsurance. Done. Now everyone has healthcare and they all pay the same price. Instead of beating around the bush about who should pay what, and why. Illegal Immigrants, run a census, the patriot act allows for collection of personal Identification, Birth certificates, school records etc run a census collect this information as well as current ID, dont have school records or birth cetificate,without a work visa or green card GTFO. Instead of saying well they had a kid here that is an american its not fair, well they dont break the law so its not fair. Harsh fact in life it isnt fair, reality check you break international law you get your ass booted out.

Protecting americans by invading another country, what about your own borders, the 50,000 strong national gaurd supposed to watch 9,000+ Miles of unprotected borders in the north (not that i see any canadians want to come to the states.) Where is the policy on national security, you beat the dead horse that is Iraq over and over with no plan but can tell us a policy on home defense. You cant talk about a policy of paying off debt but you can criticize those who made it.

The issues that have been brought up lack any backing policies, on every candidates side, Its disgusting, Vote for Change, Vote for Change, Vote for Change. Lets hear your so called changes obama. "Vote for Experience lets here your experience through policy HRC. This primary has been abysmal no discussion of hard facts, policies all its been is a pissing contest of who can talk the most shit in the shortest amount of time. Stop bitching about each other differences and get to the fucking point. We get it hes black, shes a she, who the fuck cares its like being in grade 6 again listening to children bicker about who gets to play on the swing first.

Welcome to my abstainee club Huckabee is gone and he was the only Candidate to discuss cold hard facts and issues instead of mindless childhood bater and name calling.

/end rant

[jwalton]

Re: Obama's Speech on Race & America

Since we are talking about the presidential candidates and their lip service, where does Congress figure into our chat? They can pass whatever they want until kingdom come, which is evident, but in the end what do we have done? I have some very good friends who's son is a Marine and he's been on an extended tour twice now. The last time he came home is daughter screamed in terror when she saw "the stranger" (her words). I'm tired of the words and crap that our government is giving us to placate us. I'm not unimformed as you would like to believe, I'm a realist and tired of the lip service.

Congress fits very much because you state that all they do is talk about it. Well, that's all the Democratic candidates can do, because again, the executive branch is currently the stumbling block. The information on how each candidate wants to approach the Iraq situation is readily available on the internet. You want them to do something other than talk... well, what can they do?

The President would be forced to do something if he knew the funds would dry up in the coming few months. But the Dems still vote for more funding.

If I were to make an analogy, let's say a deep sea explorer is down in the ocean doing a bunch of stuff. Currently, this explorer is quite deep underwater, and he is being provided air to breathe from the surface. There is an argument as to whether he's disturbing the ecosystem or not by being there, and some folks want the individual out of there.

Cutting off the individual's air supply would undoubtedly prompt the individual to begin moving to the surface immediately, but is that a reasonable approach to the matter? It is very possible that the individual would die before reaching the surface.

Even just leaving Iraq will cost money. A lot of it. Cutting funding abruptly jeopardizes the troops that are there, and would cause enormous problems stateside throughout the DoD as they'd be forced to move funding around. It would not be pretty. The Democrats are at an impasse on this issue.