New Laptop

[DakAttack]

Re: New Laptop

Windows 8 was made for phones, not PCs. You'll see that clearly in its interface. On top of that, they shuffled things around, so you'll most likely not find what you're looking for in the usual place.

[Armando]

Re: New Laptop

Even then to be honest, it is really difficult justifying actually using an SSD at this moment of time over an HDD.

Having your OS boot up in under 15 seconds is pretty sweet. Prices have gone down a lot.

Asus G-series laptops are pretty good. I've had one for a year and a half, no complaints other than the lack of IPS screen.

Everything I've read points to Windows 8 performing the same as Windows 7 for gaming, so unless you bump into a specific game that won't play nice with 8, I don't think I'd go through the trouble of downgrading. On the other hand I haven't used 8 so I don't know if the new interface is a pain in the ass or not.

[Mezlo]

Re: New Laptop

The interface that he showed me was pretty badass. But as Dak pointed out, it is going to take time getting used to things "not being where they should be." I was initally bummed out about my laptop only lasting 6 years, but 6 years is a pretty good life for a laptop, amirite?

[cidbahamut]

Re: New Laptop

6 years is pretty long for any rig to last honestly, even moreso for a laptop.

[Aeni]

Re: New Laptop

The interface that he showed me was pretty badass. But as Dak pointed out, it is going to take time getting used to things "not being where they should be." I was initally bummed out about my laptop only lasting 6 years, but 6 years is a pretty good life for a laptop, amirite?

Mezlo,

In Windows 8, you can revert to the standard "Start" menu interface, and I believe to get this you have to disable "Windows Metro" which is the name of the Win 8 UI. Not sure of the exact particulars and I'm sure any sales rep will be able to show you (or a quick Google or even Microsoft's own Quick Start tutorial will point it out for you because too many Win 7 users demanded it and Microsoft gave in)


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With regards to SSD, Firewind's right, but for additional reasons, including the fact that the tech behind it is volatile and short lived (the cells can only be flashed and re-flashed so many times that corruption in OS installation is pretty inevitable through heavy file swapping in a relatively short span of time) as well as the fact that it is still relatively expensive. If you're a heavy user and a hard core enthusiast, this means nothing to you, because you plan to upgrade to a new PC in a shorter cycle than the average Joe and therefore expect to relieve yourself of these SSDs in a quicker amount of time. I do warn against using SSDs for archiving and backup storage at least until the tech is hammered down

[Raydeus]

Re: New Laptop

You sound as if you could only do 100 writes before and SSD died. The durability of current SSDs only really matters for servers and other very, very intensive setups (in a magnitude of thousands of times more continued usage). For the regular costumer (even enthusiasts) this issue is meaningless unless you buy a 10 year old SSD. <_<;



Edit > Let me put it this way, take any of old USB flash drive you have and tell me how many hundreds of times (maybe thousands?) you've written and rewritten on them. An SSD is made to last many, many, many times longer than that.

[Armando]

Re: New Laptop

With regards to SSD, Firewind's right, but for additional reasons, including the fact that the tech behind it is volatile and short lived (the cells can only be flashed and re-flashed so many times that corruption in OS installation is pretty inevitable through heavy file swapping in a relatively short span of time) as well as the fact that it is still relatively expensive.

I'd love to know your definition of short-lived. Go to Newegg, browse to the SSD section. Click on any of them, then Details, Ctrl+F for warranty. It's pretty easy to find 5 years. You have to go really far out of your way to corrupt/damage an SSD. If you really want to, move your virtual memory to your hard drive.

"Expensive" is also relative. How much space do you need for an OS? Windows 7 takes up about 25 GB. You can find 64 GB or 128 GB SSD for $60-$100. CompUSA had a 128 GB one at $50 on Black Friday. Could you get a lot more space for the same money on a hard drive? Obviously, but it's also going to be slow.

I'm not saying you NEED to have one, but they're damned nice. The biggest bottleneck right now for everyday tasks is drive access speed.

[Mezlo]

Re: New Laptop

I went to another best buy and they had a different selection. The guy I spoke to was an avid gamer and got paid for it professionaly for a bit. I looked at these 2 computers (pics coming later) and he said the Asus (spelling?) the one i posted earlier is way better for gaming. He mentioned how Asus has been in the gaming industry and motherboard industry longer than the other 2 computers they had there, and the heat sink / air flow for cooling down computers is much better for gaming. He also said the graphics chip was alot better for gaming. I just noticed the $350-400 price difference, and it made me question, do i really need that top if the line Asus rig to run ffxiv? That's really the only memory / graphic intensive game I'd be playing. he said its worth the extra money. I'm going to post the other 2 computers now, let me know your thoughts.

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The dell one selling for $879 is almost identical, except the graphics chip doesnt have the "X" on the end of it, which is the best chip out there I guess. It still has the 2 gb dedicated to graphics, from what it sounds like is a major plus and would help out alot with ffxiv. Really what it boils down to, I have the money for the first one I posted but I'm looking for rational for purchasing it. If the other ones can run ffxiv without me noticing a difference, I'd rather not put money into it. Again. all i do on the laptop is ffxiv, streaming video, and surfing the web.

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actually, lol, i dont think the Toshiba has a graphics card in it.

[cidbahamut]

Re: New Laptop

I'm not seeing a graphics card spec listed on that Toshiba which leads me to believe it is probably using onboard graphics and is therefor complete and utter rubbish if you want to do any gaming with it.

The Dell has an inferior graphics card, the GTX models are higher end than GT models but I couldn't say just how much of a jump that's going to be. The top of the line standard was the GTX 670 when I was building my rig a few months back to give you an idea of where it all stands. Ideally I'd say wait until FFXIV comes out and see how it measures up on some benchmarks, but I kind of get the feeling you're looking to pick up a machine now rather than later.

I'll second that ASUS has a reputation for higher quality components and if this guy actually knows his stuff I'd be inclined to believe him when he says an ASUS board is going to run cooler than anything Dell is shipping.

It's probably not going to be a difference of night and day so it boils down to how much you're willing to spend. If you think you're likely to need to upgrade again in the next 2-4 years I'd go with the Dell. If you want to ride this laptop for another six, I'd say go with the ASUS.

[Armando]

Re: New Laptop

Look up the GPU, and just in case, the CPU, in Notebookcheck.net's benchmarks to see how big of a gap there is between them. Keep in mind that the main factor in your decision will probably be the GPU. Also check for ventilation - Asus gaming laptops are very thick and have large ventilation ports out the back. Thinner laptops may have underclocked CPUs/GPUs to prevent overheating and may not give you full performance.
Comparison of Laptop Graphics Cards - Notebookcheck.net Tech
Mobile Graphics Cards - Benchmark List - Notebookcheck.net Tech
Notebook Processors - Notebookcheck.net Tech
Mobile Processors - Benchmarklist - Notebookcheck.net Tech

You should probably hit up Newegg as well, you might catch a better deal or a refurbished laptop there.

[Aeni]

Re: New Laptop

I'd love to know your definition of short-lived. Go to Newegg, browse to the SSD section. Click on any of them, then Details, Ctrl+F for warranty. It's pretty easy to find 5 years. You have to go really far out of your way to corrupt/damage an SSD. If you really want to, move your virtual memory to your hard drive.

"Expensive" is also relative. How much space do you need for an OS? Windows 7 takes up about 25 GB. You can find 64 GB or 128 GB SSD for $60-$100. CompUSA had a 128 GB one at $50 on Black Friday. Could you get a lot more space for the same money on a hard drive? Obviously, but it's also going to be slow.

I'm not saying you NEED to have one, but they're damned nice. The biggest bottleneck right now for everyday tasks is drive access speed.

Because no one ever had an SSD for that long ... the tech hasn't been around forever It has only seen mainstream use in the past 18 mos ... before that, only the hardest of hardcore enthusiast could afford one, as it was so expensive that it was a stupid investment considering the capacities available at the time (40-80GB) and only found its way in many upper end laptops. It's slowly become ubiquitous and will therefore see the greatest numbers of uses as well as situations in which it may introduce potential problems.

To Raydeus' point, do you know how often file swapping can occur in just one area/sector of an SSD? Remember, they recommend to NOT defrag SSDs ... therefore, the files will likely sit and be accessed MANY MANY TIMES in that same sector(s) File edits = changes in state of these cells. Refer to my response to Armando regarding the time scale ... again, new tech, not many testimonies out there and people tend to upgrade quickly, especially those with first or second gen (low capacity) SSDs. Wait till we get to "sweet spot" in SSD capacity where the end users are likely to have owned and make use for more than 2-3 years.

[Armando]

Re: New Laptop

Because no one ever had an SSD for that long

You really think a manufacturer is going to throw out a warranty number without first having tested for failures? If someone's offering a 5 year warranty it means they're pretty sure very few SSDs will fail before then - or, at least that they won't fail because of reading/writing. Tom's Hardware has an article on the subject.

That aside, you're still using this mainly for OS and software. In the very worst case scenario, nothing of value is lost. If you do have something of value on the SSD for some reason...shame on you for not having backups. You need to do backups no matter what kind of drive you're using.

[Raydeus]

Re: New Laptop

/facepalm

They recommend not to defrag SSDs because there's no point for it given how data is accessed, not because the disk will wear off quicker. Defrag is used on a regular HDD to put all parts of a file in a sequential order for faster reads because it facilitates reading files in less spins of the disk.

The only reason not to get an SSD nowadays is money, and considering how HDD prices were affected by the Tsunami SSDs are more accessible now than ever before.

[Mezlo]

Re: New Laptop

Well thanks for the help guys! I just bought the screen shot on the first page from best buy, the Asus with the i7, and the GTX660M graphics card, and 17.5" screen. I'll wait for pricing to come down on the solid state before investing, plus as time passes it'll probably have more "techy shit" too. I was going to put on the things that make you smile thread, but since i started this thread... Best buy has a no interest option for financing, and the guy helping me was super cool and extended the no interest terms from 18 months to 24 months, so instead of dropping $1400, I'm just paying $50 a month for a couple years. That's some good shit. Now i can get back to participating in ffxiv without my screen dumping on me...

[Aeni]

Re: New Laptop

/facepalm

They recommend not to defrag SSDs because there's no point for it given how data is accessed, not because the disk will wear off quicker. Defrag is used on a regular HDD to put all parts of a file in a sequential order for faster reads because it facilitates reading files in less spins of the disk.

The only reason not to get an SSD nowadays is money, and considering how HDD prices were affected by the Tsunami SSDs are more accessible now than ever before.

/facepalm back to you for poor reading comprehension.

Logic for you:

1 - defrag is not recommended because as you say
2 - this is bad because of the nature of these cells
3 - continual flash/reflash of said cells wear it out faster

@Armando

I don't even think you know how the hard drives are rated. They are rated at "best guess" ... because no manufacturer would be that stupid to actually test something for years before selling a product. Instead, they will put out, say, 1,000 such devices and run a "burn in" test for roughly a month, tops, and then use mathematical modeling to determine the rating that they give the drives. Which is why so many drives performances out there DO NOT ACTUALLY MEASURE UP to their actual rating. For example, Seagate was notorious in the early 90s for their "higher than rated" failures. Several WD models also suffered similar fate. And I remember Samsung with a couple of their earliest offerings having such high failure rates that the executives of that division were fired en masse.