LET'S talk about SSDs

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

So basically, it would get "fragmented" and after awhile it would take the drive longer to find the data it needed than if it were on a spining platter, because it would only read/write in one direction.

Well, the platters spin continuously in a single direction while operational, as they should--it'd be idiotically slow if any read/write would require those 5400-10000 RPM platters to stop and reverse direction.

Fragmentation is a problem, but the fundamental issue is that the info you want next may not be near where the read/write head is. As fast as modern hard drives are, it still takes time to move the head around and spin to the correct position. There are techniques to minimize the problem, but it cannot be eliminated.

RAM type devices typically do not have such problems; it takes about the same amount of time to read a block/word of info from anywhere. (Actually, they can have variable latency, but it's not nearly as pronounced. There are cashes, read-aheads, etc., but let's not worry about those things.) Add to that that RAM--even the flash RAM used in SSDs, are just faster than hard drives even when the head is already on the block to be read, there's no contest when it comes to speed.

[Raydeus]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

As fun as "Ray's Excellent Adventure" sounds I think it's easier to just wait a year or two while prices and storage capacities get better, then well get them here too.

[Feba]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

This means I'd have to import the disk, which roughly translates to a 30-40% increase in cost just from both taxes and shipping,

Step one: Get in car
Step two: Hello US!
Step three: Buy hard drive
Step four: Consider "Wait... do I really want to return?"
Step five: Realize you're from Mexico
Step six: You don't want to return
Step seven: Knock someone up (easier in the South)
Step eight: Shotgun wedding (easier in the South)
Step nine: Green Card!
Step ten: Realize you're now living in the South
Step eleven: Reconsider going back to Mexico.

[Raydeus]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Viruses you get for visiting porn websites are always a good topic of conversation!

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In the end I went with a 4 HDD RAID0 setup and will probably just keep my older rig nearby for XI.

Yay older games that never get client upgrades!

I really hate the idea of using a separate computer for XI, but I also want to play a lot of other games that would greatly benefit from using Windows 7 64-bit with up to date drivers and at least 8GB RAM.



PS > So I'll probably add the 40-60GB SSD for the second EVE client (and Video capture) later on when/if I go back to that game.

[Ufgt]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Every time I see this topic, I see "Let's talk about STDs".

Carry on.

[METDeath]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Yeah, I wouldn't use SSDs in RAID 0 because of the lack of TRIM.

And about that second disk it will only be used for Virtual memory at first, but it is also for a second client for games like EVE and other misc uses. And I'm considering Virtual Memory mainly because I'm using XP 32-bit at the moment and wont move back to 7 until AMD fixes the driver issues with the game when using anything above Catalyst 9.1 (which doesn't exist for windows 7.)

Once I can play XI using Windows 7 drivers I'll be able to move to 64-bit and 8 GB RAM.

Ah, in that case that makes sense, or possibly set up a manual RAM drive before windows boots? I haven't used RAM disks since Win95B back when I had 80MB of RAM on a laptop and that was huge.

[Raydeus]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Yeah, I wouldn't use SSDs in RAID 0 because of the lack of TRIM.

And about that second disk it will only be used for Virtual memory at first, but it is also for a second client for games like EVE and other misc uses. And I'm considering Virtual Memory mainly because I'm using XP 32-bit at the moment and wont move back to 7 until AMD fixes the driver issues with the game when using anything above Catalyst 9.1 (which doesn't exist for windows 7.)

Once I can play XI using Windows 7 drivers I'll be able to move to 64-bit and 8 GB RAM.

[METDeath]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

I have two SSDs in my gaming computer, both are OCZ Agility 60GB. I ran them RAID0 for a while, but turns out TRIM commands don't get passed on to the SSD when in RAID. So what would happen I was eventually lose speed (7.5 to 7.2 Win 7 HDD score). Plus my RAID card would start freaking out thinking one of the drives was failing (it wasn't).

Also, some programs don't really benefit from SSD either because the load screen is hard coded or they just aren't that heavy on data transfer. Or in the case of some MMOs the load time is server communication and not file load times. Some MMOs (like WoW) saw reduced load times.

Also, why buy a second SSD for virtual memory? Why not just use REAL memory with a 64-bit OS?

[Raydeus]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Alternatively I've been thinking about going with a 4 disk Raid 0 configuration for C.

Pros :

-Waaaaay cheaper. (150-200 bucks VS 600-800+ for the SSD)
-Hassle free to acquire since those disks are readily available everywhere.
-Comparable performance for loading times on games.
-Easy to replace.
-My Power supply can handle it without problems.
-Zero problems working with XP in Raid.


Cons :

-Too space consuming, would require me to build a separate add-on to house the disks because they simply wont fit in my PC.
-Higher power consuption.
-Crappy seek times (as usual) which translates to no benefit whatsoever for smaller files.
-Less room for additional disks (should they be needed)

I've been avoiding raid for quite some time now, but it's become evident I need the data transfer increase now that games and apps are getting much heavier.

An SSD is the preferred option of course, but sadly those disks are rare here in sizes above 100GB, and I require at the very least 200Gb of space just for C. This means I'd have to import the disk, which roughly translates to a 30-40% increase in cost just from both taxes and shipping, so a 500 bucks disk bought from Newegg would end up costing me around 700+ bucks after shipping and taxes.

[Raydeus]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Yep, that's why I'm trying to find as much info as possible on brands and perfomance a good 3-4 months before actually upgrading my rig.

So far Corsair and Kingston (not much surprise there) seem to be the most stable and they are usually in around the 500 bucks range, but with data transfer speeds hovering around 190-230MBps.

Other brands (ADATA, Crucial) go above the 300-350MBps mark (read) but usually have reports of instability, faster decay, incompatibility as a boot drive, etc. etc.

I'm hoping to find something in the middle, something with a 280/210-ish read/write rate. Either way even with a 200 MBps SSD that would be almost a theorical 400%-500% increase in data transfer speed over my current discs which are supposed to be around 70MBps but in reality never go beyond the 55MBps mark.

[Aeni]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

That is why I'm buying a 256Gb SSD for C.

The prices range widly on these things. I just took a peek at what's being offered and my mind nearly exploded at how different they're pricing these. Obviously a lot of research is required before buying these. Wow ... $200 to $700 on the same sized drive? And I thought it was worse with SCSI vs EIDE back in the days.

[Raydeus]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Thanks, it does.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

Heheh, there's no rush, I'm planning on upgrading till early next year since all the games I want to play have been moved to 2011 anyway.

I found it and the one in my Mac is a Toshiba, if that helps any. ^^

[Raydeus]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

That is why I'm buying a 256Gb SSD for C.

The 60Gb one will only be for virtual memory, temp files, video capture and/or an extra EVE client should I decide to go back to that game since a second client is a must.

[Aeni]

Re: LET'S talk about SSDs

So my question is if anyone here has experience working with SSDs on a gaming rig and could give me some insight about working with them.

I haven't personally had experiences with this, but here are some experiences from a friend and then another experience posted by one of the reporters over at Anandtech.

-Load times for WoW was cut in 1/2 and there were no delays with the listings on AH displaying despite congestion (My friend)

-Load time for FFXIV got cut by a whopping 75% with an SSD drive (Reporter at Anandtech)

So if you're noticing performance issues with your rig with regards to data loading, then CPU or GPU isn't going to help you with that. SSD is the way to go but unfortunately does not store very much (at least right now) and price-to-storage is very expensive. I would probably only install your OS and then one or two often used programs on the SSD ... remember, you need to have some space left on it for page-file for the OS ... and also updates and your My Documents folder and temporary storage for other things. So, if you have FFXIV installed and it currently occupies around 6gb now? 8gb? You need to remember that you'll need double that for at least the next 2-3 years for (a) updates and (b) expansions.