Update Details

[Mhurron]

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AFAIK he quit before reaching 75. He's been arguing things here he couldn't possibly have any experience with.

[Sevv]

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Now, now, Feba can't be expected to know these things.

Feba quit pre level cap being 70?

[Mhurron]

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And smn astral flow is always wrong post 70, it doesn't out damage the 70 bps

Now, now, Feba can't be expected to know these things.

[Sevv]

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footwork is a disappointment.

i bet the emergency maintenance today is going to fix the tp return on asuran fist+footwork.

Or the sneak attack working from the front.

And smn astral flow is always wrong post 70, it doesn't out damage the 70 bps

[Omni]

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footwork is a disappointment.

i bet the emergency maintenance today is going to fix the tp return on asuran fist+footwork.

moar taru edit: zomg at sandworm swallowing you up and taking you to a new battlefield...

[Feba]

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yep.

It's not made to be something you'd use at the first sign of trouble. It's a wild card that you pull out when you're already in deep shit.

[Omni]

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id put my money on a mage sleeping something than a smn saving the day.

[Sevv]

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You are bringing an risk to yourself, as a mage, by casting sleep. That hate can get you killed; and if your party is relying on you for support they will die as well. It's not unnecessary, though, because the ALTERNATIVE of NOT sleeping it and it killing your party is higher.

Likewise, if you're in a bad situation, projecting Bahamut could be the difference between living and wiping. And hey, if Bahamut flips out and kills you, it's not a huge deal because you were probably going to die anyway. Somewhat like when a SMN burns through Astral Flow to try to kill something; if it doesn't die they're out of MP and pretty much screwed. On the other hand, the chance of Astral Flow saving the day is good compared to the alternative of it getting you killed.

After 70 if your astral flowing you are doing it wrong.

[Feba]

Re: Update Details

You are bringing an risk to yourself, as a mage, by casting sleep. That hate can get you killed; and if your party is relying on you for support they will die as well. It's not unnecessary, though, because the ALTERNATIVE of NOT sleeping it and it killing your party is higher.

Likewise, if you're in a bad situation, projecting Bahamut could be the difference between living and wiping. And hey, if Bahamut flips out and kills you, it's not a huge deal because you were probably going to die anyway. Somewhat like when a SMN burns through Astral Flow to try to kill something; if it doesn't die they're out of MP and pretty much screwed. On the other hand, the chance of Astral Flow saving the day is good compared to the alternative of it getting you killed.

[Sevv]

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On the entire Alexander issue, you fight the machine Alexander inhabits. Unlike the majority of the avatar's we have come into contact with, the TOAU Avatars actually need a host, to have a presence in the world. Yes, I know that Pheonix is in the game under similar story lines.

[Omni]

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wait... what? cors kill?
GTFO

taru edit: actually you're right. we do kill. allowing blms to drop continuous unresisted nukes on mobs gets them eaten.

[Ziero]

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Not when they die. And if that charm fails, it just continues to build; as I recall charm gets quite a bit of enmity to boot.

Not really. You're still doing an action which is potentially dangerous because it's a better choice than the alternative.

And you're a poopiehead. Refute that.

If you're going to die from repeatedly failing to charm something you either started with no HP, are charming something you shouldn't be charming or just plain suck.

And again, sleeping a mob is nothing like randomly calling a creature that will potentially attack you. If you're sleeping a Mob it's either already attacked you or will attack you shortly. Not sleeping it won't stop it from trying to tear your face off. Hell, it's "potentially dangerous" to voke a mob but people do that all the time.

The main difference here is that you're not brining in an unneccessary risk by pulling in a new, potentially dangerous monster into the mix...unless you suck and sleep the wrong mob. It's not about the risk of pissing off the mob so Enmity has nothing to do with this idea. It's the addition of a possibly aggressive monster to a situation where you don't want more things to fight.

And at least I can admit when I'm wrong.

[Feba]

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Bst's can also try to recharm things 15 seconds after their first attempt.

Not when they die. And if that charm fails, it just continues to build; as I recall charm gets quite a bit of enmity to boot.

And sleeping a mob is a totally different scenarion then summoning a creature out of no where then having it rip your face off in the middle of a fight.

Not really. You're still doing an action which is potentially dangerous because it's a better choice than the alternative.

It's a bad idea, so just give up.

And you're a poopiehead. Refute that.

[Taskmage]

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Bahamut respects strength. It's only due to the tremendous power and will displayed by the CoP fellowship that he's held off destroying humanity for as long as he has. I wouldn't say it's against his nature to submit to a pact with a child of Altana because he is not, imo, anti-humanity. Like Diabolos did, he just has no faith in the lesser creatures of Vana'diel, including himself, to stand against the tides of fate he's been watching build for ages. Ignoring the mechanical feasibility of implementing Bahamut as a summon, I belive he would enter a pact with a summoner but only if he were shown a level of power capable of defying the gods.

[WishMaster3K]

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Feba's good at arguing. I don't know how CORs and BSTs got pulled into a summoning argument, but he pulled it off.

And I refuse to throw pixies. I might throw some Taru WHMs, but never pixies.