JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

[Malacite]

Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player


Extremely well written and points out some of the major differences between XI and XIV, and what made XI fun to play despite the ridiculous grinds compared to XIV which is growing more and more stale. The article doesn't describe *all* my major beefs with XIV (crafting/materia not mattering much, armory system being a shitty substitute for the job system etc.) but it does get to the core of the problem when it comes to content and why YP is every bit as oblivious and stubborn (maybe even worse?!) as Tanaka was.

[Firewind]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

You can sum up the entire post as "I want to go back to "Just throw lots of MNK/SAM/WAR/BLM/DRK at it and faceroll everything" gameplay of FFXI"

He also wants all the mechanics removed from the fight which would make fights every bit as shallow as in FFXI or WoW.

If people want to play FFXI the servers are still open. Why do people not get this?

The article doesn't address the real problems with the game:

• Lack of levelling options.
• FATEs being poor game design in general and they only seem to have added them because Warhammer Online and Rift made them popular.
• PvP being just plain broken.
• Healers are pretty much exactly the same and have the same playstyle (Reactive healing with cooldowns)
• The Atma system in general.
• The item drop system. It should really follow SWTOR's system where you get a token for a specific item slot you can redeem instead of it being purely random.
• Cross server stuff meaning there's zero accountability in Duty Finder and CT.
• Blatant use of third party programmes.
• Goldsmith and Blacksmith being basically worthless.
• Dungeon Spiritbonding.
• BLM being worthless in T6-9 compared to SMN and BRD.
• Gil being way too easy to make and nothing to spend it on is massively damaging the economy.
• Lack of things that are there for just a bit of fun.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

I read everything as "Make it more like FFXI".

So why not just go play FFXI? This is no different than when people cried that FFVIII wasn't like FFVII or Majora's Mask wasn't like Ocarina of Time.

[Malacite]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

I think you're taking it too far tbh.

I see it as more going for a happier middle ground. XI took it to the opposite extreme I won't deny that with most fights being somewhat bland. but XIV basically comes down to pattern memorization trumping everything and it makes for dull, tedious and frustrating fights for the reasons the OP stated. It's a big part of why I quit the game.

And no, the whole "go back to XI" argument doesn't really fly because then you have to deal with all the ancient shit that XI is still dragging it's feet in.

[Firewind]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

But people are asking for all of the ancient shit to come back, that article especially...

Also why demand a game you no longer play be more like another game you no longer play? This actually interests me.

[CrimsonDeath]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

Do people really not realize that FFXIV isn't FFXI HD Remix still? People have been whining since vanilla FFXIV that isn't not the same as FFXI. They're different games entirely. They're going to be different. That's okay. FFXIV in it's current state might not be perfect, but let's not forget how much better it is than vanilla XIV. To say this article is extremely well written, and points out flaws in the current state of the game is somewhat incorrect. It points out "problems" by basis of opinion. The real problem is, the game was rushed through production and isn't "finished" yet. There is a lot of signs of this. I think a lot of what Firewind already pointed out, is proof of that. However, even after 12-13 years of existence FFXI still has plenty of issues. Every MMO does. What matters is that the Dev team more or less cares, and is trying to remedy that, though not always in the fastest way possible. After all, it's not always easy to see the forest through the trees.

tl;dr: FFXIV:ARR is it's own game. It has issues, but it shouldn't be a clone of XI.

[Malacite]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

XI has too many things about it that bug the shit out of me to really run down the list.

I just think the guy's right on the money about adding a bit more RNG to the boss fights and less bullshit OP moves that can wipe the whole party even if only 1 person gets hit IT IS NOT FUN. The combat was, overall, far more enjoyable in 1.23 to be quite honest.

I like how Ifrit has multiple attack patterns for example. What I don't like, is how scripted every goddamn fight is. Like the OP said, the way YP has designed the game it very heavily trivializes player skill & gear, reducing everything to pattern memorization. As long as you know the boss rotations and you meet the minimum iLv, you can and should win.

But then things like latency, people being slow etc. throw a massive wrench into all that. I don't want a return to XI's just standing there and spamming buffs, but it would be nice if every goddamn fight didn't play out exactly the same each time and if there were less bullshit overpowered insta-death attacks that pretty much prevent any sort of recovery. XI's combat may have been bland, but at least the game was fun overall - it was just too much of a grind for too long.

[Firewind]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

How long have you really being playing MMOs for? Pretty much every boss fight is scripted very heavily. If things were completely random then Raiding would be Impossible because it would boil down to pure luck. FFXI was a pretty good example of what happens if everything is RNG. You would and could get wipes caused by a certain TP move being used multiple times in a row and there was nothing you could do to stop it. Even then the encounters were pretty much scripted, and you could just faceroll through them by simply spamming whatever DD class is absurdly OP for the current content patch.

Your "Bullshit OP Moves" are things you can avoid by simply moving. What you seem to want is none of these moves yet you seem to be fine with moves being picked completely at random?

Enjoy the tanks being hit with Cursed Voice in T7 then.

Oooh! what about Tanks and melee being viable Fireball targets in T7?

Oh how about the MT being a Twister target in T5?

Wait! How about multiple Conflags in a row?

Or maybe Twinny might decide to make the MT a Dreadknight target! Oh what fun!

Or Titan deciding to randomly turn around the table flip the entire raid before stomping while everyone has the damage debuff?

Hey guys! Let's have the melee classes by Searing Wind targets in Ifrit Extreme!

Oh! How about the Healers being constant Honey targets in T6? ^_^

Asking for stuff like that over what we have now is like shitting your bed in protest at an unclean hotel bed. All your get is a shit covered bed to sleep in.

Like I said, if you want FFXI, just play FFXI.

[Ketaru]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

Those very same pre-50 dungeons that the post is praising are also very mechanics driven. Many of the bosses and sub-bosses of those dungeons had gimmicks that had to be mastered. So I don't see get why anybody would complain about endgame being mechanics driven.

Maybe endgame just isn't for everybody and that is a hard fact for people to accept?

[Firewind]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

Ketaru is exactly right. Endgame isn't for everyone. Look at how any people in MMOs actually do endgame. Only the Hardcore PvP crowd is smaller. It's not for everyone. Many games don't have their endgame cater to the casual crowd because the casual crowd doesn't care about high end PvE or PvP. They just want to have fun with their friends.

[jenova_9]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

But people are asking for all of the ancient shit to come back,

You are basically just flipping the table and bringing out the yin and yang of the other problematic situation, mew, which has its own problems and will cause thousands of more people to leave it.
At least FFXIV ARR is more user friendly, having a sense of progression and challenge, without being stuck in Garliage Citadel or some earlier camp (there are those that don't
even get past Dunes).

[*]Lack of levelling options.

5+ methods to level is not enough for you, mew?

FATEs, dungeons, Story quests, side quests, normal mob grinding, guildleves, Guildhests

This has more ways to level than FFXI did, mew. And at least three of those methods level at a decent pace. You can get to level 50 in less than a week.
Whereas FFXI when it started, most don't even make it past level 40 in their first months, though it can vary. And the majority didn't even tolerate the grinding
to reach level 75, or level 50 for that matter. And the nightmares trying to get all their AF?

FFXIV ARR is much more fair and rewarding on several standpoints, with better stories and questlines as well.

[*]FATEs being poor game design in general and they only seem to have added them because Warhammer Online and Rift made them popular.

FATEs are enjoyable and they provide the option for larger organized groups to level from lv. 1 to 50 together if they so choose.
It can be monotonous, but it comes with the genre, and at least the battle system is more fun, engaging, and charismatic than FFXI.
People actually feel strong and useful instead of an amateur that can't even hit a rabbit.

[*]Healers are pretty much exactly the same and have the same playstyle (Reactive healing with cooldowns)

Better an effecient method of healing instead of for the sake of being different, risk a class being too difficult or complicated to be as effecient.
Look how pathetic Dancer is at healing compared to White Mage in FFXI, mew. It's unique style didn't save it from being very ineffecient in top tier healing.

[*]Cross server stuff meaning there's zero accountability in Duty Finder and CT.

Without cross servers, the duty finder would be longer and worse.

[*]Gil being way too easy to make and nothing to spend it on is massively damaging the economy.

That's better than an economy where only the few have a decent amount of money, while everyone else is scrapping to afford gear/resources for their level
and have to work extra hard to afford anything (which would increase rants about things taking too much time and effort to get anywhere and buy stuff, which
then increases the rants of repetitive grinding and gathering. Which then increases the rants towards RNG.) Housing is still super expensive, and there are expensive
clothes to buy at the market and stuff, mew.

[*]Lack of things that are there for just a bit of fun.

Gold Saucer is coming, and FFXIV ARR is still during it's preExpansion era, mew.
If people complaining about lack of more fun stuff to do, then they should wait for the 1st expansion at least,
around that time there will be double the content and activities.

[Melody]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

You can sum up the entire post as "I want to go back to "Just throw lots of MNK/SAM/WAR/BLM/DRK at it and faceroll everything" gameplay of FFXI"

He also wants all the mechanics removed from the fight which would make fights every bit as shallow as in FFXI or WoW.

If people want to play FFXI the servers are still open. Why do people not get this?

The article doesn't address the real problems with the game:

• Lack of levelling options.
• FATEs being poor game design in general and they only seem to have added them because Warhammer Online and Rift made them popular.
• PvP being just plain broken.
• Healers are pretty much exactly the same and have the same playstyle (Reactive healing with cooldowns)
• The Atma system in general.
• The item drop system. It should really follow SWTOR's system where you get a token for a specific item slot you can redeem instead of it being purely random.
• Cross server stuff meaning there's zero accountability in Duty Finder and CT.
• Blatant use of third party programmes.
• Goldsmith and Blacksmith being basically worthless.
• Dungeon Spiritbonding.
• BLM being worthless in T6-9 compared to SMN and BRD.
• Gil being way too easy to make and nothing to spend it on is massively damaging the economy.
• Lack of things that are there for just a bit of fun.

[*]Lack of leveling options.
[*]FATE Grinding[*]Hunting Log[*]Area Exploration (Mapping The Realm Achievements)[*]Battlecraft Leves[*]Challenge Log - Dungeons: Feeling Lucky, Dungeon Master | Guildhest: You're the Heist Around I, You're the Heist Around II | Fates: Fated to Wander, Embrace your Fate | Levequest: Just Leve it to Me, Making Like a Tree.[*]Low Level Daily Roulette

[*]PvP being just plain broken.

I'm guessing you're talking about the use of Sprint on Casters? DoW classes get a skill called Weapon Throw or something of the same type that kills the Sprint of a running caster.

[*]Dungeon Spiritbonding.

You can just go to Urth's Gift and Spiritbond. No need to really bang your head against a wall doing dungeons.

[*]Gil being way too easy to make and nothing to spend it on is massively damaging the economy.

Invest in 3 Star Crafting.

[*]The Atma system in general.

I can agree with you on this. I don't like the RNG for Atma at all, but at the same time it keeps content from being rushed. But there is also the downside of luck along with RNG itself. If anything I would've preferred it if you were given 12 Atma and had to charge them doing certain FATEs.

[*]Blatant use of third party programmes.

People have been using 3rd party programs since XI. (Cupper, Windower, etc etc) I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon and to ask for it to be stopped is just plain insanity. People are always going to need to find a way to swing their E-Peen around. Parsers being the biggest 3rd party tool next to botting and RMT illicit activities are going to be around until the day we die I'm guessing.

[Firewind]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

So Stone Vigil Hard Mode means Mal and that JP player got their wish. The last boss on that fight is completely and utterly random. The boss has no hate list and pretty much just uses abilities at random. It's pretty boring actually which is a shame because the cannon fight in that dungeon is actually a lot of fun and reminds me of the turret sections of SWTOR

[Malacite]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

^ that's taking it to the opposite extreme though.

What I want to see is a good mix - have *some* scripted parts but not the entire fight, and no hate list is just asinine; Who wants to do a fight where you're basically in crisis-control mode the entire time?


My 2 big problems with the fights in ARR are nonsense like Titan's landslide and other such punishing mechanics that basically mean a wipe if even ONE PERSON screws up (which really is bullcrap and goes to your point about endgame - too many people who clearly can't handle it try to get into it anyway and I seem to bump into them and only them...) & the boring sequence of just repeating the same segments over and over in an endless rotation until the boss dies.

FFXI actually had a number of great fights that were challenging and fun, and I dearly miss those. Like Gessho, the Shadowlord (S), Promathia & Ultima and Omega weapons (Limbus).


The only fight that really stands out to me from XIV was the Darnus battle at the end of 1.23 - THAT was sheer perfection. Brutally hard but not impossible, and only semi-scripted; His attack pattern was for the most part randomized pre-Megaflare (and even post I think though he got more attacks) but there were clear visual cues as to what was coming up, like his lance-beam and learning how to react to that (I was PLD at the time and loved it) was just tremendous fun. I got quite angry at times trying to do that fight, but it never felt like it was too much.


ARR just hasn't been able to recapture that perfection so far, and it pisses me off because YP has clearly proven that he can deliver so what gives? Also as a side note, the huge nerf to the white ravens (which my FC leader who has them was furious over) was a colossal dick move on the part of the devs - just saying. Rage quit-worthy even quite frankly given then effort it took to get the bloody things.

[Firewind]

Re: JP Player Summarizes the Main Issues with XIV

Really you should do more coil, it is only really the Primals that are heavily scripted fights. T7-9 actually don't follow a strict attack pattern and transition into phases. It's only really T2 and T6 that have very strict scripts, because, like the Primals, they would be pure hell without them.

I still don't get why people still complain about Landslide. It is very heavily telegraphed and part of a very fixed and easy to remember rotation, which can be bypassed by a lot of abilities anyway. If you think THAT is bad, wait until T6-9. Or just T6. Devour + Thorns going off at the same time makes Landslide look like a box of kittens shitting rainbows when it comes to "Very easy to deal with things that will wipe the entire party if people don't stay calm and pay attention to the screen and telegraphs."

Syrcus Tower has some very fun boss fights actually. They do require a lot of attention because the adds do add some random elements to it, especially in the first boss where you basically wipe the raid if you aren't paying attention to who has the Fire, Ice and Lightning balls. The encounters are tuned very well. You basically can't be carried through the new CT, even in iLv100, and gear doesn't make that much of a difference.