Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

[Aeni]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

No, I understand what the system is about. I think you're all misunderstanding me, so let me take some time to explain it.

The way I see it:

At the starting screen, you are granted an option to start off as ANY class you so choose. But, this isn't FFXI, where you equip a weapon or tool and magically gain a different set of stats. YOU DON'T. (When you changed jobs in FFXI, note stats change)

Have any of you tried to refund the points you spent? No? Try it. I can assure you that you're not able to undo your choices. At the most, you're only allowed to reassign a percentage of the total points expended, but not everything that you've earned up till now.

I'm looking at it right now and I'm trying to reassign.

This is what I mean choosing the starting role is important. If you care more about economy, go with Hand/Land. If you care more about slaying dragons, go roll War/Magic. The starting points are different based on role choice as well as race choice. The associated DR (diminishing return) curves for the stats will also differ. Physical stats on a War disciple will reach a harder curve than on a Magic disciple.

Obviously, things could still change, since we're only in beta. But with release just days away and with most of the changes being delivered in a patch, I doubt there's any drastic changes that is going to be made to the game at this point in time.

[Kafeen]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

You can reassign them all, just not all in one go. You need to wait for a while (15 minutes?) then you can reassign again.

[jenova_9]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

oooh that was a very intense opening cinematic, mew.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObmPl2m2fsw]YouTube - Final Fantasy XIV Opening Cinematic Trailer [HD][/ame]

Great dialogue too! You rarely conversations in a FF opening, if ever.

[DakAttack]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

You can reassign them all, just not all in one go. You need to wait for a while (15 minutes?) then you can reassign again.

How far back can points be reassigned? Is it the most recent level, or does it refund a different set of points than the last refund?

They said you grow your character by every choice you make. I wouldn't expect them to let you stop and change all that at the drop of a hat.

[Takelli]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

They said you grow your character by every choice you make. I wouldn't expect them to let you stop and change all that at the drop of a hat.

Well... It would be quite silly to not let you change your stats as you please because you can change class at will. So, if you have a melee oriented character, and want to play a mage, your SoL if you can't.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

Leveling Pug and Gladiator for 8 ranks each and dumping points into STR/VIT/DEX actually made my "melee" attacks as a Conjurer and Thurmy pretty strong. Stronger than my Glad/Pug melee. (Conjurer at 5 I can spam the melee move for about 70 damage a pop on Even and lower mobs, but my physical level is about 13).

So THAT in and of itself is weird to me, but not THAT much. I suppose that means that dumping points into physical stats for the purpose of raising a Magical based job just to learn the skills isn't a chore.

And yes, you can click "Reassisng" and keep points in a pool. Not sure how long the cool down is, but if you pool it for a while, you can eventually Reassign all the points you've accumulated. Seems like it'll be a PITA the higher the level is, and some planning needs to be made.

So yeah, even as a Tank, I need to consider putting points into INT as much as I need to put points into VIT. It's good that stat changes aren't "Permanent".

This also kind of nullifies Race-Stats to a degree, I suppose. Do stats directly affect HP and such? (More VIT = More HP?) and at the same Rank/Level, is there a huge difference betwen Elezen and Lalafell HP?

[Raydeus]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

How about going RDM and making all your stats balanced? <_<

How stupid would that be? o_O (Consider I haven't player XIV and probably wont for a loooooong time)

Also, reassigning stats in addition to changing jobs seems like a royal PITA. Can you at least macro stats for different classes?

[Takelli]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

How about going RDM and making all your stats balanced? <_<

How stupid would that be? o_O (Consider I haven't player XIV and probably wont for a loooooong time)

Also, reassigning stats in addition to changing jobs seems like a royal PITA. Can you at least macro stats for different classes?

Because people only care about Min/Maxing and if you aren't, then you wont get into a LS to hunt down NMs/Do end game.

Also, what do you mean by PITA?

[Raydeus]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

Pain In The Ass.

[Ziero]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

They said you grow your character by every choice you make. I wouldn't expect them to let you stop and change all that at the drop of a hat.

But you do, you grow your character every time you choose to level a skill.

(Conjurer at 5 I can spam the melee move for about 70 damage a pop on Even and lower mobs, but my physical level is about 13).

I thought Spirit Dart was magic damage? It may be based on your overall Elemental skill seeing as it's an "elemental missle"

And yes, you can click "Reassisng" and keep points in a pool. Not sure how long the cool down is, but if you pool it for a while, you can eventually Reassign all the points you've accumulated. Seems like it'll be a PITA the higher the level is, and some planning needs to be made.

So basically it both allows you to completely reassign all your stats without you being able to do it all at once at the drop of a hat? That seems pretty balanced, so stat redistribution won't be abused as much as I assumed.

This also kind of nullifies Race-Stats to a degree, I suppose. Do stats directly affect HP and such? (More VIT = More HP?) and at the same Rank/Level, is there a huge difference betwen Elezen and Lalafell HP?

Just for the record, Elezen and Lalafell actually have similar stat distribution. Elfs aren't the physically dominant class anymore, they're more Dex/Int/Mnd while Taru are Dex/Int/Mnd/Pie...depending on the tribes as well, since each tribe has different starting stats. Even within the same race. But that said, the max difference between the highest and lowest stat between two races is all of 6 points. Not that big in the long run. Customizable stat allocation really does nullify the starting stats of the races.

Also, reassigning stats in addition to changing jobs seems like a royal PITA. Can you at least macro stats for different classes?

Stats, I don't think so. While the system does let you rearrange stats, it seems like it's not something you should be doing constantly like Job Changing is. Balanced stats just got another boost for people who want to play a variety of jobs. Though Jobs themselves, gear and even abilities can be switched with a single Macro. You can even type out macros outside of the game and copy/paste them into the game, which makes things soooooooooo much easier.

Also, what do you mean by PITA

Pain In The Ass.

[Aeni]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

You can reassign them all, just not all in one go. You need to wait for a while (15 minutes?) then you can reassign again.

You know very well that most players would be turned off by that prospect. And I'm not talking about min maxing here. Just the idea of common sense and logic.

Look, if I'm a Marauder, what use do I have for Intellect? Anyone? Most of my abilities are tied to my TP and even if I got a few other skills from another class (Say, from Lancer) some of those skills eat away at my health in exchange for a boost to damage or similarly other kinds of trade offs but do not really require mana.

Yet, if I was with a group of friends and there was no healer and we just need one for a quick leve and I didn't mind doing it since I was (for some reason) leveling my club/staff skills (I forgot which was for the Thau) I would want to pool a lot of my stats into Intellect and Mind ... because tons of Strength and Vitality and Dexterity is useless in this case. And my gear doesn't have the "proper" stats for the switch either.

This is what I have been warning everyone about. The fact that you have a near useless ability to reassign a few of your stat points do not change the fact that you're still limited by the role choice you made at the creation screen and the initial investments of points in the early stages (pre 20)

And again, I didn't say that you're eternally damned, because we're still in beta. I just cautioned that (a) beta is almost over and it doesn't look like SE is going to make any overhauls to this new system and (b) taking some care in your choices rather than making one willy-nilly does not hurt anyone. Thinking is good. You got a brain so you should use it once in a while.

[Ziero]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

Except the choice at the creation screen is still non-important in the long run. Even in those first 20 levels you can change jobs 100+ different times, rank up any and every skill possible and wind up playing a completely different class then what you started as.

If I said it once, I said it a hundred times, it's painfully clear that SE wants to promote more balanced stat distribution in this game as opposed to min/maxing. Combine increasing stat boost costs at higher tiers, diminishing returns, special no cost affinity skills that raise stats based on the skill you chose (i.e. mage versions of the skill boosts int and give mage job ability boosts) and the ability to at least partially swap a number of your stats in a short amount of time, and it's clear that SE doesn't want people min/maxing.

Things will get even more complicated when crafting and harvesting stat relations are discovered as that would add even more jobs to consider when distributing stats.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

This is what I have been warning everyone about. The fact that you have a near useless ability to reassign a few of your stat points do not change the fact that you're still limited by the role choice you made at the creation screen and the initial investments of points in the early stages (pre 20)

Please elaborate on this? As far as my limited investigation has led me to conclude, it would be beneficial to pay attention to the bonuses provided by the different gear options available to starting classes. And even then, that's only an initial bonus, since starter gear is only utilized for so long. The best option I'd wager would be to start as a Disciple of Hand and buy a weapon, so that you potentially get gear that helps out crafting.

I'm interested in seeing what SE has in store for the economy, because - as far as I was concerned - I only got new gear if I crafted it or got it in a quest. The current bazaar implementation take Over 9000 years to sift through the various mules and a central database would definitely be nice. I forsee a headache, especially with 9 potential levels for mule placement.

Furthermore, making gear was kind of tedious, because I would fail a ton of times due to lack of Guild Mark-related abilities/training.

Also, HOW THE HECK DO I GET GUILD MARKS!???

[Ziero]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

By playing the actual retail game apparently.

[Aeni]

Re: Final Fantasy XIV Pre-Launch Event Coverage

Before I get crucified, let state on the record that I do not promote any specific style of game play or wish to force upon any particular manner in which they should (or should not) approach the game. In my opinion, you paid for the game, you're paying the monthly fees and as long as you're not griefing your fellow server neighbor or causing disruption to his entertainment or value of the game, you're free to do whatever you wish within the bounds of the ToS/EULA. That said, on to the comments...

If I said it once, I said it a hundred times, it's painfully clear that SE wants to promote more balanced stat distribution in this game as opposed to min/maxing. Combine increasing stat boost costs at higher tiers, diminishing returns, special no cost affinity skills that raise stats based on the skill you chose (i.e. mage versions of the skill boosts int and give mage job ability boosts) and the ability to at least partially swap a number of your stats in a short amount of time, and it's clear that SE doesn't want people min/maxing.

I'm not arguing with you on whether or not SE has a specific gender in mind when they created this game. That's up to debate and largely dependant on your biasness to either side of the argument. Very highly inflammatory and highly opinionated, so let's just talk about my statement.

I said that you should think about what you're rolling. You said that people shouldn't care. I disagree.

1. You may not be able to change your appearance of your character. Aside from the mention of a beauty salon/barber, ripped off from WoW apparently, there doesn't seem likely to be any service, premium or otherwise, so this alone should make you think.

2. Naming your character also has the same caveat.

3. Hand/Land or War/Magic and then even within those ... look, to be fairly honest, if you're going to change a class immediately after receiving your first 1,000 gil reward and it's because you changed your mind, then you should just delete your character and start over. At the cost of 20 min this is a simple task and you should've saved your model so you can load it up quickly and easily enough. Guild Marks are a priority and also saving some gil early on is the best way to weather the storm of a non-AH market in which (as I already experienced in beta) there's a lot of price gouging going around and even player collusion in market controls.

4. Starting gear won't be replaced (I promise you) so easily if you're spending most of your earnings to a craft. This means that making sure your stats on gear is optimized even for just a few points (but most importantly, defense points, evasion, etc) makes all the difference in the world. A lot of leves will spawn several enemies at once (when one of them decides to run away and health pool still too high to take down with one casual toss of a javelin) and you'll need to be in top shape if you're soloing.

I can go on and on ... but it's taking the time to be careful and making sure you know what's right for you. Sure, it won't matter ... after level 20. And I disagree with you on a balanced stat distribution as I will explain below.

Please elaborate on this? As far as my limited investigation has led me to conclude, it would be beneficial to pay attention to the bonuses provided by the different gear options available to starting classes. And even then, that's only an initial bonus, since starter gear is only utilized for so long. The best option I'd wager would be to start as a Disciple of Hand and buy a weapon, so that you potentially get gear that helps out crafting.

Gear doesn't give much stat bonus as you're giving it credit for. So far, I've seen nothing in the way that impresses me. Upgrading a whole set of leather to bronze will net me a couple of points of Vitality and a couple of points of Dexterity. Yet leveling just once gives me more points than that.

And here is the kicker. It's not that you shouldn't spend your points in a balanced manner, because you can and no one should stop you. It's that you also *could* spend all your points into a few stats, because you can and again, no one should stop you. If you only care to put your effort into a few classes within the same discipline and then throw all your points into that, you will come out way ahead in particular areas, like DPS.

Now, for the average players, this may or may not be detrimental. Here's why.

If you apply to any end game LS, you will not need to be worried about certain things, like having a tank or healer at the ready. What will happen if you go up against a very organized LS that consists of dedicated healers, tanks and DPS? No hybrids, just purely devoted to one and one role only.

Then that one LS will be very successful at going through end game content than another LS which consists of a rag-tag team cobbled together of a lot of hybrids (i.e., Marauder/Healer)

Again, I'm not advocating any agenda here, I'm just opening your eyes to what is or may happen. I don't even need to play this game to see the potential pitfalls of the system and how it's going to shake down. This is the same kind of problems Blizzard is grappling with and which is why all the classes there are going through some major revamp before Cataclysm expansion. The idea of class balance within the general context and then placed in the context of end game are far, far, far different things.

This is why I have reservations of the current system. I want to be assured that whatever happens, end game will be a fair and even playing field for ALL players and not just for a small section of the population.