I need some help with WHM party mechanics

[Maeru]

Hey Guys,

I hit 55 on my WHM yesterday but I've been having some problems with my performance in parties , mainly due to the issue of unsatisfactory mp management. I've been browsing various forums for a couple of hours this morning and have read multiple times that as WHM I shouldnt accept a party without a refresher or backup healer. This kinda made me go "Wtf? o.o" because it seems ridiculous to turn down an already scarce party invite because it doesnt include a BRD or COR, not to mention the fact that I've arrived at the level where parties become 1 MAGE ONRY TP BURN DA BURDIEZ.

People seem to think that a WHM shouldn't be able to be self sufficient because they cant use convert or refresh but I'm determined to figure out a way to perform all the duties expected of me as WHM while keeping my mp at a decent level. I'm wondering if the issue with my mp troubles has to do with the way I go about healing and buffing my party.

My plan for how I heal is to throw the appropriate tier regen on people who get hit, not doing much direct curing until the end of the fight where I use Curaga/II or Cura (if I have some potency boost from Misery) to bring people back up to yellow / white hp for the start of the fight. I try to rest in between regens and hastes to keep my MP at a safe level.

Theoretically, this looks good to me, but for some reason shit always hits the fan:

My PLD tanks only use mp for flash or even banish, becoming an MP sponge that I have to cure constantly all fight. My DD try to flaunt their epeen by using all their JA's at once and pumping out huge damage, becoming the tank for the rest of the fight. My pullers rarely keep shadows up....It just goes on and on.

The only way I can think of to keep up with this sort of thing is healing like a RDM: cure cure cure cure. However, unlike a RDM, I dont have convert or refresh to bail me out when I run out of mp.

I love WHM to death and I want to find a way to be self sufficient and effective without being forced to lean on a crutch by waiting for a party with refresh.

I'm also trying to haste everyone, is this too much of an MP sink in the late fourties to early fifties? What can I change to be a more effective healer?

I can list my gear sets if that will help at all, hopefully you whms werent crushed by this mountain of text and can share with me some of your knowledge ^-^

Thanks,

Maeru

[Sekighara]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Well by how you explained it you seem to have a collab of bad players as well. This is a common problem because of the self sufficent behavior and gear other classes get but now whm. So maybe I can give you the idea of seeing if parties will go to older areas but even still you will have an mp problem. I know this might not be much help but here is an item that you might get alot of use out of.

Casaba Melon Tank - Bahamut - FFXIAH.com

Also what are you subbing right now?

[Evion]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Well, try an MP equipment build HERE. Also, 55 is still a little low on birds unless you have a GOOD pt. 56/57 is when things really start cookin!

[Sekighara]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Was checking around also found this set for whm/blm 53 it is a bit on the pricy side but it adds 130+ mp but it doesn't have mnd.

- FFXIAH.com

@Evion I can't see the site from work so it might be the same set if it is I am sorry.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

You really shouldn't have a party where it's just WHM + 5 DDs, or even RDM or SCH with 5 DDs. It's just too much, and a buff/support job will increase the party's output by quite a bit. It's doable, but it's not ideal. WHM at 55 is tough. I could tell you to sub SMN for a bit of auto-refresh, or SCH for some Penury action, but what you sub at that level comes down to personal preference, since Sublimation isn't useful on WHM until you hit 70.

Regarding Haste ... assuming you've read my first paragraph and you've gotten a party with yourself, some support job, and 4 DDs, one of which is probably a tank. That cuts your MP usage down by 40 every two and a half minutes, because you certainly don't need to Haste a BRD or COR. You can try to get parties with people like BLUs and RNGs, who won't really need Haste. (RNG because ranged attacks are not affected by Haste, and BLUs because they have their own Haste spell.) You don't really desperately need to Haste yourself, and at that level you might prefer to save the MP.

Curing. Something to get used to now, and this is very important: It's not necessary to keep people at full. Learn how much your cures do. Don't use a Cure III where a Cure II will do. You'll save mounds of MP this way. I'd say in Afflatus Solace while XPing. Misery is great for Cura, but unless you're getting hit a lot (you shouldn't be) Curaga will be just as good. Solace is going to be better because of the additional Stoneskin, which can and will cut down on the amount of HP you're curing, which again, adds up similarly to understanding how much your cures do.

Regens are great, keep with them, but keep an eye on who you've casted it on (I use YarnBall with Windower, which shows me who has what buffs and when they're going to wear) so that you don't cure over your Regen.

MP management at 55 is tough. You're just getting used to the fast-paced party and it's a transitional period. Once you get to 60, I think it will get better. You'll have a few more gear options at that point and your DDs will be killing faster. You'll get more MP as well, which means it won't be such a challenge to keep people hasted. Haste ... it's a necessary evil. I remember how hard it was to keep up with Hastes at that level, in terms of MP, but you just have to get through it somehow. Try to get all of your spells into your Haste cycle: Haste, Regen, Cure 2, Haste, Cure 3, Haste, Regen, Cure 3, Haste, etc. If you can cram your spells into that period of time, you can rest between Haste cycles. You may have to stand up from time to time, but resist the urge to stand up the second someone goes into yellow, unless they are really getting beat up on. They can sit at yellow HP for a while if they're not the tank, and they'll be fine until you stand up.

Why? The longer you sit in /heal, the more you get back per tick. You want to sit down there as long as you can to maximize your resting. Get some MP recovered while healing gear - as much as you can get your hands on - and swap into it when you rest. And try to stay in /heal as long as you can to get the most out of it, without letting people die (obviously). It's hard to rest while people are getting smacked around, but you just have to learn to resist it.

I can't really remember a whole lot else about leveling at 55ish on WHM, it was a while ago, but those are some general pointers I can give you for now that are good at all levels. I do remember it was a tough period and that getting party invites at that point really sucked. Good luck, I promise it will pass.

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I'm subbing SCH atm

I was also wondering, Is it best to gear for MP or hMP? I have a really nice resting set because I figured it would be better to be able to regain mp quickly than having a huge amount to begin with

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I'm against MP gear totally on WHM, because I'm swapping so much that I'm losing a lot of it in the process. I could idle in nearly 1300 MP, but when I switch into my curing set, I'm down to 980ish, and switching back to a full MP set doesn't automatically fill me back up. You just learn how to manage what you have. At your level, because you're not going to be swapping a whole hell of a lot, you could gear up some MP, but it doesn't hurt to start learning to manage now. You're right, getting more MP back while resting is more important in the long run than just having a ton of MP sitting around.

You should start swapping gear anyway. Put on MND and Cure potency for your cures, put on hMP for your resting. You can use a Max MP if you truly want to just for casting buffs, but I don't even bother with it because of all the other gear I carry around. Eventually you'll want a Haste build for some of your spells that have longer recasts (Erase, Haste, Esuna) and a regen set if/when you get the AFv2 body. That's probably quite a way down the road.

The two most important sets for a WHM are your Cure Potency set and your hMP set. Anything else is moderately important, but those are the two you really want to be their best.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

I'm no high-end White Mage, but off the bat a few things come to mind:

First: use Flash. Tanks actually love it when you do so. Mob not hitting anybody means people can put up shadows, and generally would allow you to breathe and assess the situation. The only time to not Flash a mob is if the Paladin had just Flashed it already, in which case you should wait for their Flash to wear, and then use Flash yourself.

Secondly, I notice you mention using Afflatus Misery. For the dedicated healer White Mage you seem to be after, you just can't beat the power of Afflatus Solace. Stoneskin'd cures are just that awesome, and was a measure designed and added to put you straight back in to the premier healer role.

Third: try /SCH if you haven't already. Light Arts allow you to cast White Magic faster and for less MP, and this even before the Penury and Celerity Stratagems, which you can use for even less costly or even faster White Magic. At your level, you'll also get Conserve MP, which can help a bit. It only gets better at later levels, most notably with Sublimation.

Fourth, and I didn't notice this until just now, but level 55 should also grant you access to the spell Auspice, which is basically Subtle Blow on the entire party. Although, I suppose it might be kind of useless if the mob is only using a TP move once before it dies, anyway . . .

Fifth, regarding Haste, trying to keep everybody Hasted without a Red Mage or a second White Mage in the party is quite plainly futile. Highest priority for Hasting always goes to the tank, after that consider just giving Haste to one or two random DDs to help increase kill speed. Hasting anybody other than the tank should not come before any of your other duties, really.

Sixth, and this is important: Red Mages are trying to play a gimped you, not the other way around! Regarding the way you handle Regens and Cures, you seem to be spot on as far as I can see.

Seventh: Juices/Yagudo Drinks are your friends in lieu of a Red Mage. Until Sublimation, that is.

And that's really all I can think of. Maybe be a bit more proactive and see about making parties yourself; try to make things where people can cooperate and coordinate their efforts the best way they can. Also, don't be afraid to give people some flack if they are being stupid and/or suicidal - no need for you to risk your neck for those types if it just means that they aren't going to learn, anyway. And regarding Paladins not curing . . . D: Paladins have Auto Refresh for crying out loud! Curing in the middle of a fight should be their job first, yours second.

EDIT: Dang, late post is late.

[Malacite]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

- Sub SCH. Light Arts alone will save you tonnes of MP. In fact the only reason not to use /SCH is warp/escape.

- Prioritize buffs. Haste is nice, but if it's draining your MP too much then only haste the jobs that need it (NIN)

- Eat Cookies.

- Make sure you have refresh from Sanction

- If the PT is really hurt, Divine Seal + Penury + Curaga 2/3 will heal everyone back to full for little MP.

- Don't be afraid to use Flash if the tank can't get shadows back up or cure him/herself.


And yes, for the love of god do not go into a PT as the only healer. Even a DNC will suffice, so long as you have some kind of back up to cover for you/allow you to recover MP.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Oh yes, I forgot about DNC, and also they're another job on the list of jobs that don't really need Haste.

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Thanks for the prompt replies guys. I've already begun swapping in seperate sets of gear for different spells so the max mp set doesnt make much sense for me. I've started putting together a max-MND build for debuffs due to the lack of +skill pieces at this level and I also have the applicable HQ staves from leveling bard (Apollo's, Terra's, and HQ wind ice, let me know if I'm missing something there just regular Dark staff too, might upgrade to pluto when I start experimenting with aspir)

Also, another question that's not quite related to WHM mechanics but I dont think is worth starting another thread for.....

I have BRD at 75 and am working on bringing whm there as well. As I finish my CoP and RoZ missions to gain access to sea/sky I want to get more involved in the "endgame" scene. I'm already a part of Dynamis and Einherjar but I'd like to expand into more including HNMs and the like.

Am I best off putting my effort and merits towards really pimping one job? or should I have both geared at a decent level? I'm unfamiliar with what will be expected of me in that sort of event situation. Do I need a "main" that I put most of my gil and effort towards? I like WHM and I like BRD....just dont know what the next step is in terms of getting involved in higher tier endgame.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

If I were a linkshell leader, I'd want to see effort on all of your jobs, not just one. I wouldn't say go crazy pimped on everything, but if you had one great job and one sub-par, I'd see someone who's not really versatile, as you'd only have that one great job.

Typically you'll have a job that you consider your main that you want to play more often, but you should keep all of your jobs geared at least acceptably, sure you can gear your main better and really pimp that while keeping your others average, but don't neglect your secondary jobs. Like me, for example, I didn't expect to play RDM a lot and I didn't really want to, but I kept it geared up because I knew sometimes I'd need it.

Not sure if that's 100% clear here. I mean keep all of your jobs at least average/well geared, and if you want to really focus on and pimp one job, go for it. I won't think you're weird if you don't want to totally pimp the hell out of every job you have, but if you worked really hard on your WHM but let your BRD lag far behind I'd think you were lazy or something. Gearing one job better will show a linkshell that you're interested in playing that more, but keeping your others well geared will show that you're willing to be versatile and change to suit the needs of the linkshell.

[Maeru]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Okay, I'll try to spread my effort across both jobs if possible. I have a feeling I'd be ask to come as BRD more often than WHM though, please correct me if I'm wrong. I realize it varies from LS to LS but I see a lot less people with BRD at 75 than I do with WHM at 75. I think, to me, it makes more sense to really pimp out the job I'd mostly come as while keeping the other gear good enough that I wouldn't be a detriment if asked to come as something different.

I guess I just don't understand how people with 5 or 6 75s do it. Perhaps they've just had the jobs leveled long enough to gear them all sufficiently over time? Anyhow, I'll wait until WHM and BRD are both fully merited before I worry about pimping my gear lol. That's the first step to improvement no? XD

Is there a merit guide for WHM on the forum? I'm on a blackberry so it's a little difficult to navigate effectively

[lionx]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

Use Regen Regen Regen, that is my primary spell and unless theres a high danger i always put Regen over Cures. Its cast once then let it do its thing kinda spell, and has much less enmity. Its also a saver in MP so i rarely Cure if things go as planned.

[Aksannyi]

Re: I need some help with WHM party mechanics

There's no specific merit guide for WHM, but merits are best spread this way:

Cure Cast 5/5
Barspell - spend these as you wish
Regen - spend these as you wish

With Barspells and Regen it depends which you think would be more beneficial, I have 2 on one and 3 on the other, can't remember which right now.

Devotion 3/5
Shellra V 5/5
Protectra V 1/5
Martyr 1/5

Martyr and Protectra V aren't necessary really, if you'd rather just cap Devotion. It boils down to preference, though your PLDs will love you if Devotion is up every 10 minutes.