Wrll in late Valkrum early qufim ive seen

[NewMorning]

what people are talking about with other jobs easily replacing the white mage... any job subbing white mage can easily just throw cure 2's out or whatever and replace the white mage it seems.

some of the later parties i have been in it was almost like i wasn't even needed... i could of just sat there and done nothing and it wouldnt of made of difference.

i imagine when i hit 25 raise will set me apart from my same level counterparts but then they also get raise either through subbing white mage or redmage main.

another reason i qm a firm believer in no subjobs... just one job and thats it... warrior/samurai/white mage especially could reach their full potention for students wanting to go down those paths as noone could just sub your lifestyle and take some of the more sought after things in that path.

but i digress... is there really any real reason for me to spend time taking the path of a white mage to its highest peaks? really originally i wanted to be elvaan or galka and focus on melee but the reason i didn't was i didn't think they could make a good white mage and i figured you have to be versed in white magic for some things.

but now it almost seems like even a warrior could sub white mage at level 25 and still have cure 2... dunno..

then at very high levels you could sub whm and get most of the teleportation spells and raises.

is there any reason whatsoever to level white mage to high levels?????

or should i just start over altogether with a different race and just focus on something else.... would hate to lose all i worked for... but the main reason i went hume was to balance magic/melee.

anyone see what im saying?

[Tobold]

What do you believe is better: A group of 6 red mages, or 2 white mages + 2 warriors + 2 black mages? Obviously the group with the different specialists is much better, and can tackle much tougher mobs, earning more xp per hour.

The same is true on an individual level. A white mage is not just needed for the few spells only he can do, but for how much better he is healing than everybody else. Because everybody else either has far too few MP to be the main healer, or too low MND to heal really efficiently, or both. Sure, a group can survive without a white mage, but then they either have SEVERAL people each healing a bit, or they only kill low xp mobs.

[PetriW]

but now it almost seems like even a warrior could sub white mage at level 25 and still have cure 2... dunno..

Sure he can, and he can cast it a mindboggling one maybe two times.

You don't give enough information to post a reply really but I'll try. I see you think subjob whm can do the healing, sure they can to some extent but even a smn/whm can only cure so much. And after playing a SMN/WHM in Valkurm to level 18 I can tell you that Cure1 sometimes just can't keep up, just as Cure2 won't be able to keep up at a later point.

Realize one thing, you're never gonna be that knight in shining armor that people adore, you're a member of your party, maybe those parties were in were poorly put together, if a whm isn't needed to heal it shouldn't be there in the first place, it's only bogging exp.
Up to 32 WHM are generally VERY needed due to the sheer abundance in NA melees, then after that point you need only one healer (most often whm or rdm) per party, with another whm, rdm or something offhealing etc for those long exp chains.

Many consider WHM a core component of EVERY single party. The only problem you'll have with finding a spot in parties will be competition from other white mages.
Raise isn't a do or die ability in most threadmill areas, the other PTs have a WHM anyway and with some honey they raise. You are however the prime healing job.

And I doubt you'll ever see a WAR/WHM who can keep himself up on IT mobs in Yhoator.

Blah, I guess what I want to say is, I don't understand what you're worrying about.
Maybe you're misunderstanding how spells from subjobs work. Teleport for example can only be used when a level 72 (SEVENTYTWO) character uses whm as subjob, and then only to port to Dem, Holla and Mea... aka half the teleports can only be used by a whm main. And I can promise you I'm not gonna run to West Altepa from Dem.

Recreating is probably not a very good idea either for that matter. Sure if you REALLY want to be an elvaan be an elvaan but then as you said you have to redo the work. As a hume you can be good at all job, sure a Galka PLD can take a couple of more hits, a Tarutaru whm can cure a few more times but honestly. As a hume you're only making tradeoffs if you switch. Unless of course you KNOW you'll focus on a job that particular race excells at.

There are excellent posts everywhere on this forum about play strategies, party combinations, what jobs and subjobs match together and so on and so forth.
If you do some reading you'll find quite a lot of information why a WAR/WHM for example isn't all that good, especially at higher levels. Below 30 you can get away with most job combos but later stuff just hits so hard that you need a better tuned PT.

I had a WAR/WHM wielding a 2h sword in garliage (lvl 32+ dungeon) as tank once. He had good armor but couldn't tank worth shit, he was the first tank that simply depleted my mana bar before the first mob was dead. And his whm subjob lasted um... seconds... then his mana pool was empty.
Switched to a PLD/WAR tank, same level and all and we could do 3 exp chain with safety margin.

Edit: oops wronge level on ports. :sweat:

[tomc1988t]

the reason why you feel you're not needed i suppose is because is the shit in qufim and late in valkrum dont hit too hard..with an exception to stone2 claw scissors catapult and screwdriver or course....and a 3 paladins in a group can most certainly handle all these with their curing magic..and early on in qufim you dont need a static(good) party anyways....you should go to yuhtunga jungle at 25 and get into a static party yourself and fight smithys and see how much you're needed ^_^..

ps~ if you wanna feel needed come to odin..i despratly need another whm friend =D

[Falconi]

Î can understand your situation.

Yesterday evening in Khazam I wasn't need much either. Imagine a WHM and 2 RDM in a group. I didn't need to debuff (RDM was faster) then I was using regen to conserve mana but the other RDM always Cure2'd the tanks :p

I could have watched TV...

Oh well. But normally you are needed.
Tell me one job, just ONE ! which makes sense to use WHM as subjob ???

A Tank with WHM is a joke. Have you seen how much HP a WAR for example gets from subbing MNK ?? It's insane!

WHM has to be a mainjob to be efficient. It's makes no sense as subjob.

And as WHM you have a large range of spells, not just healing. Sub RDM or BLM and you get more debuffs, nukes and so on.
Still most of the time you will just cast Cure^^

[Miriamel]

RDM/WHM or BLM/WHM or SMN/WHM or BRD/WHM or BST/WHM make a lot of sense. ^_^

Anyway, we are needed. The subjob issue you mentioned is hardly an issue at all. Teleports, raise - Yes, you have to have a 50 main to use raise and at the very least a 72 main to use your first teleports. Do you think you'll pt with 50's when you're level 25? Or will you PT with 72's when you're lv36? I don't think so.

While Redmages are competition at level 42+, I don't think that to be bad at all. In fact, I love redmages for they'll have convert. Also, they're pretty much the only competition you have to deal with. Look at the melees, they have a much worse time.

You should however enjoy your job. So if you don't enjoy whm or are disappointed because some others can do what you can, you should reconsider your choice of jobs. =) Or go for an advanced job at lv30. Bards are always wanted, and it's a rather individual class.

[NewMorning]

Cool thanks for the posts...

basically i was just talking about red mages and even summoners with white mage sub... paladins,etc.

a red mage at 22 have cure 2 and the cure 2 was doing maybe 3 points less then my cuire 2 healwise and he had more mp then me and easily could of kept the party safe without me around.

i dont want to like get a bunch of attention or be like a god or soemthing but i would like at least to be important enough to be needed somewhat... i mean when i could just stand there and do nothing and the party could easily get 4-5 chains with a redmage basically my level it kind of shattered my confidence as a white mage.

then i party with a elvaan summoner/white mage whi btw had like 100 mana points more then me one level ahead of me who could of single handedly kept 2 parties alive.... dont get me wrong i like some help healing but i could of fell off a cliff and it wouldnt of mattered.

and i always hear that it even gets worst as the red mage can easily take over your job as healer... and they get the refresh so that even makes them more important over you..

i consider myself a pretty humble white mage compared to some of the ones out there... but i still like to feel i have something to offer a group...

this is a made up scenario.

me: do you need a white mage?
leader:what can you offer to party?
me: i can do my best to heal and keep people alive
leader:we already have a red mage can do that and has refresh
me: i can raise
leader: i doubt anyone will die we have a pretty solid party
me:i can teleport
leader: i doubt we plan on leaving this area... solid spot here
me: hmmm ok... guess i have nothing to offer

lol im not saying that is true... that is just how i feel at the moment.

[Neehai]

Not all Cure 2s are the same.

While you may be able to "get by" with a WHM sub, it isn't optimal for the group.

I WHM main will start casting full Cure 2s way before someone subbing WHM. This means that not only will the WHM main have more MP, but their heals will be more MP efficient.

MP Efficiency = Less Downtime = More Experience

The same scenarios happened in Everquest. Early on you could get away with lesser healers like Druids and Shaman. However, as you progressed, it became painfully clear that in a game of specializations, jacks of all trades didn't fair too well.

I suspect the same will be true in FFXI.

I am a WHM with a BLM sub. I cringe everytime I am asked to be the Healer when I am levelling my BLM. Heals that normally land for the full amount are pitifully substandard.

When I am a BLM, I want a WHM main in my groups.

[PetriW]

me: do you need a white mage?
leader:what can you offer to party?
me: i can do my best to heal and keep people alive
leader:we already have a red mage can do that and has refresh
me: i can raise
leader: i doubt anyone will die we have a pretty solid party
me:i can teleport
leader: i doubt we plan on leaving this area... solid spot here
me: hmmm ok... guess i have nothing to offer

Sorry, there is no irreplacable job in FFO, while playing this game you'll have to live with that just as WAR have to live with there being PLD, DRK have to live with there being THF MNK DRG etc etc.
White mage is a very viable job path, at least until 40 you won't have any problems finding parties and once there with all the RDM with refresh parties will often want both a whm and rdm for longer exp chains.