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The info on mp conserve vs mp refresh is extremelly lacking, I did a few searches and found nothing of interest. This is why I'm making this thread.
I did some asking around about how much MP Conserve helps and one thing is certain, the BLM don't really agree.
But so far it seems to be that MP Conserve works like this:
On about 30% of all spells cast 1/3 to 1/2 of the spell cost is removed. By this we can presume that on average each spell costs 10 to 15% less mp.
MP Refresh is pretty straightforward:
1mp every 3 seconds.
Now the question is, how good is mp conserve compared to mp refresh?
At 50/25 a decently equipped whm should have at least 500mp so lets start with that as basis. A whm/SMN will have about 20-30mp more than a whm/BLM.
A whm typically casts a debuff or two then proceeds to healing, I assume at level 50 whm have found good enough tanks to dare cast Cure III/IV so I won't even go into Cure I/II.
Cure III (cost 46mp)
MP Conserve: average Cure III will cost 39 to 42 mp.
MP Refresh: Cure III + cooldown takes 6 seconds, if you don't know how to cut cooldown I'd say it'll take 9 seconds. It'll then usually take at least 6 seconds before you cast another heal, this based on how often I've cast Cure II the last 10 levels I've been using it. Thus a Cure III costs about 41mp.
Cure IV (cost 88mp)
MP Conserve: average Cure IV will cost 75 to 79mp.
MP Refresh: Basing we only need to heal half as often as with Cure III each Cure IV will cost about 78mp. If we're chaincasting each heal will cost 85mp. If we need to heal at the same pace as we did with Cure III each heal will cost about 83mp.
Could go on listing spells but you get the gists of it. Ok, next point:
At 75/37 a whm/SMN will only have just over 30mp more than a whm/BLM. For a Hume (hey he's in the middle) this is about 5% additional MP.
Even if we factor in those 5% in the above cures mp conserve is still more powerful, especially as by then we probably don't even cast the bordercase Cure III anymore. (You can cast 8 CureIV, mp conserve saves 32-64mp more than mp refresh at 50)
Next point, mp refresh works while you're sitting too. Well here's how big difference it does waiting for the first regen tick you get 10mp, pretty good, after then you get 10 more mp each 3 ticks, still pretty decent... Problem is at later levels you most likelly won't be spending as much time sitting, especially in a PT with a brd and rdm, those are not always available though of course. If you do however spend a lot of time sitting you have to factor in that with levels Clear Mind improves. I have not seen a good list of Clear Mind upgrades that WHM get but I assume (please correct me if I'm worng cause it's important yo) that we have at least Clear Mind IV by level 70, going by Sheilas numbers in the SMN guid Clear Mind IV gives:
aka every 10 seconds you get this much mp[CODE]sec: 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 ... 180
blm: 0 0 24 50 78 108 140 174 210 ... 634
smn: 3 6 34 63 94 128 163 200 240 ... 694[/CODE] So on a 1.5 minute meditation (if needed) you save 10 seconds. On a 3 minute meditation you actually only save about 10 seconds too as the next tic will give you 56mp...
So what speaks for mp refresh?
Well the only thing I can say really speaks for mp refresh is that it works while you're standing up. So with you brand spanking new lvl 75 you still only(?) get that 1mp every 3 seconds while, this means stuff like when you cast that teleport spell you'll have the mp back again within 3 minutes. If you need to cast spells seldom, for example a CureIV only once every 30 seconds on average, you neither lose nor gain mp compared to blm subjob. And this is why you sacrificed your ability to warp, tractor, bind, blind, sleep, etc?
Yeah yeah, my arguments probably have holes the size of icebergs but well, after some thinking on it I actually don't really see how a whm/SMN has more mp than a whm/BLM.
Opinions? Thoughts? I know the game is "play whatever you want" but heck, now I'm leveling my blm... If you pick Summoner as subjob you did it for one or maybe two things:
1) Supposedly more mp. I can't say I see where.
2) Buncle pulling cause NA players can't pull.
And I don't even want to level my blm for anything but warp... :sweat:
Edit: typos...
I did some asking around about how much MP Conserve helps and one thing is certain, the BLM don't really agree.
But so far it seems to be that MP Conserve works like this:
On about 30% of all spells cast 1/3 to 1/2 of the spell cost is removed. By this we can presume that on average each spell costs 10 to 15% less mp.
MP Refresh is pretty straightforward:
1mp every 3 seconds.
Now the question is, how good is mp conserve compared to mp refresh?
At 50/25 a decently equipped whm should have at least 500mp so lets start with that as basis. A whm/SMN will have about 20-30mp more than a whm/BLM.
A whm typically casts a debuff or two then proceeds to healing, I assume at level 50 whm have found good enough tanks to dare cast Cure III/IV so I won't even go into Cure I/II.
Cure III (cost 46mp)
MP Conserve: average Cure III will cost 39 to 42 mp.
MP Refresh: Cure III + cooldown takes 6 seconds, if you don't know how to cut cooldown I'd say it'll take 9 seconds. It'll then usually take at least 6 seconds before you cast another heal, this based on how often I've cast Cure II the last 10 levels I've been using it. Thus a Cure III costs about 41mp.
Cure IV (cost 88mp)
MP Conserve: average Cure IV will cost 75 to 79mp.
MP Refresh: Basing we only need to heal half as often as with Cure III each Cure IV will cost about 78mp. If we're chaincasting each heal will cost 85mp. If we need to heal at the same pace as we did with Cure III each heal will cost about 83mp.
Could go on listing spells but you get the gists of it. Ok, next point:
At 75/37 a whm/SMN will only have just over 30mp more than a whm/BLM. For a Hume (hey he's in the middle) this is about 5% additional MP.
Even if we factor in those 5% in the above cures mp conserve is still more powerful, especially as by then we probably don't even cast the bordercase Cure III anymore. (You can cast 8 CureIV, mp conserve saves 32-64mp more than mp refresh at 50)
Next point, mp refresh works while you're sitting too. Well here's how big difference it does waiting for the first regen tick you get 10mp, pretty good, after then you get 10 more mp each 3 ticks, still pretty decent... Problem is at later levels you most likelly won't be spending as much time sitting, especially in a PT with a brd and rdm, those are not always available though of course. If you do however spend a lot of time sitting you have to factor in that with levels Clear Mind improves. I have not seen a good list of Clear Mind upgrades that WHM get but I assume (please correct me if I'm worng cause it's important yo) that we have at least Clear Mind IV by level 70, going by Sheilas numbers in the SMN guid Clear Mind IV gives:
Sitting MP Healing+12(24), every next recovery+1(2)
blm: 0 0 24 50 78 108 140 174 210 ... 634
smn: 3 6 34 63 94 128 163 200 240 ... 694[/CODE] So on a 1.5 minute meditation (if needed) you save 10 seconds. On a 3 minute meditation you actually only save about 10 seconds too as the next tic will give you 56mp...
So what speaks for mp refresh?
Well the only thing I can say really speaks for mp refresh is that it works while you're standing up. So with you brand spanking new lvl 75 you still only(?) get that 1mp every 3 seconds while, this means stuff like when you cast that teleport spell you'll have the mp back again within 3 minutes. If you need to cast spells seldom, for example a CureIV only once every 30 seconds on average, you neither lose nor gain mp compared to blm subjob. And this is why you sacrificed your ability to warp, tractor, bind, blind, sleep, etc?
Yeah yeah, my arguments probably have holes the size of icebergs but well, after some thinking on it I actually don't really see how a whm/SMN has more mp than a whm/BLM.
Opinions? Thoughts? I know the game is "play whatever you want" but heck, now I'm leveling my blm... If you pick Summoner as subjob you did it for one or maybe two things:
1) Supposedly more mp. I can't say I see where.
2) Buncle pulling cause NA players can't pull.
And I don't even want to level my blm for anything but warp... :sweat:
Edit: typos...
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