lvl 75 War/Nin vs 75 Nin/War Tank HNM

[Burzum]

OK I've come to a bit of a crossroad here... I've lvled both War and Ninja to 37 and I'm looking toward the distant future.... So before I started either past sub job lvls I wanted to get some feedback on the endgame of both. I've got a good grasp of what each to lvls 1-74. Being Galka I want to TANK HNM so which job is best suited once the exp grind is over. On the Ninja boards all the HNM tanking NIN seem to indicated that their gear is Haste > Damage % Reduction > HP > VIT based. Since War's can wear most of the same Haste % items as Ninja and have a large HP/VIT, DEF advantage over Ninja I'm curious to their performance as a tank on HNM's I don't hear alot of talk about War/Nin's being Main Tanks so I'm looking for more info.


Thanx

[Dragon Ghost]

NIN can prolly solo HNMs alot better then Warrior. The cons of WAR is it dosent have as high as evasion as NIN, but it has acess too crossbow, which is really nice. Im sure WAR/NIN & BRD/WHM could duo alot of things very, very well. Carnage Elegy, Mambo & etc.

[Tifa]

WAR/NIN can tank some weaker HNM but on the big-boy stuff you will only see NIN or PLD tank.

[Ariagiovanni]

Definitely go NIN if you want to tank.

War can tank to an extent, but if you want a fullblown tank go NIN or PLD.

[Uroboros]

Originally posted by Tifa
WAR/NIN can tank some weaker HNM but on the big-boy stuff you will only see NIN or PLD tank.

Define "big-boy stuff." I can tank anything a NIN can except Charybdis and Purson, and anything a PLD can except Faust, and kite better than either. :p

[Ariagiovanni]

take a few hits from nidhogg

[ZQM]

The closest haste% item a NIN has that doesn't cost 20+ million is 5%, and WAR gets freakin' 9 in one slot. WAR caps at 32% haste from equipment not including Dusk+1, NIN gets 19% haste including speed belt, AND WAR's is so much cheaper.

With all out haste equip + the spell, that's +47% Haste (49% haste if you include dusk+1), only 3% from the cap (50%). That then means a WAR can get madrigal, minne, etudes, whatever from the BRD instead of dual march, making them a lot more versatile. Want more damage? BAM, madirgal. Fighting Byakko? BAM, take less damage.

And considering that you only need to have the haste% at the time you cast, you can then switch to the games most +enmity in the game to hold better hate.

WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT THIS?!?!

[Burzum]

ZQM mind naming off the items? I could only come up with 30% and I think the total cost would be pretty steep for most War's to come up with:

I've got :
Byakko's Haidate: +5%
Dusk Gloves +1: +4%
Dusk Ledelsens +1: +3%
Panzer Mask +1: +3%
Speed Belt: +6%
Rune Chopper: +9%

5+4+3+3+6+9 = 30%

So what am I missing...?

[ZQM]

Actually I wasn't including non-existant +1 stuff. I was using NQ Panser Mask (2%), Dusk Gloves (3%), and Dusk Feet (2%). Including those 3 items would actually cap WAR out at +35% haste.

You left Blitz Ring (1%) and used Speed Belt instead of Haste Belt. Haste Belt gives roughly +10% Haste. You can find more info about it in this thread (Along with other things surrounding haste and Utsusemi): http://ffxionline.com/forums/showthr...threadid=51117

Although, a Speed Belt would be supperior to Haste Belt. The loss of 4% haste is made up by the fact that you can switch to Warwolf belt after recasting. However, Haste Belt only costs about 5k to make, where as Speed Belt is 20-30 mil.

And ofcoarse it's argueable that Warwolf is better then Haste Belt (Which I personally believe), but my arguement above wasn't which belt is better. Even without it though, a WAR only requires one march song, allowing the BRD to sing a diffrent one.

Infact, with Rune Chopper, a WAR only needs Byakko's Haidate, March*2, and Haste Spell to come close to reaching the Utsusemi timer cap (That's ~49% haste). A NIN needs a speed belt to reach it.

[Burzum]

Just out of curiosity... although given the probable nature of a War that could obtain all the stated equipment anyways wouldn't dual wielding a Ridial / Joyese be preferable to Run Chopper ?

1 more question... other than evasion does Ninja have anything going for it over War post 74? With Evasion being a fairly non-issue on top tier HNM's aka they don't really miss...

[ZQM]

The gear I mentioned is relatively easy to obtain for a 75 WAR. All that I mentioned are either cheap, high drop rate, or only a little expensive. While Dusk does cost a couple mil (And by no means does 75=rich), when you compare it to other equipment at that level it isn't that bad.

I have Joyeuse, and I wouldn't use it over Rune Chopper. I have used it to tank Aspid when I didn't own a Rune Chopper and it worked well, but Aspid has pretty low evasion. Hitting a God with a B ranked weapon and not a lot of +acc equipment won't happen that often. And considering the horrible DMG on it, when you do hit it will probably be for 0 damage.

As far as Ridill though, that's something like a 1-5% drop rate. But basically the same deal with Joyeuse.

EDIT:

And the advantage a NIN has over WAR is the extra shadow gained from Utsusemi:Ni (It's gimped to 3 shadows when subbed) and a higher parrying skill.

[Rilu]

Hey Nny, how exactly does the Rune chopper latent effect work? I know it takes MP, but how would that effect warrior?

[ZQM]

You need MP. No MP = no haste.

It drains at 3 MP per 3 seconds. As long as you have 3 MP, you have enough. Just grab a RDM to refresh you and problem solved.

You also need to be engaged. If you're disengaged, you don't get the haste effect.

Getting back on topic: Tanked Fafnir in gimped gear because I was rused after servers came up, so much for being PLD only.

[tracert]

my ls tanks... pretty much everything with a pair of war/nin, includeing Kirin

[July]

This is an interesting thread (I'm still doing research). Why exactly is PLD and NIN able to tank some things better then War/Nin?

Does PLD get def stats that more then War/Nin and why wouldn't the ability to blink make up for this?

What does a Nin have that a war/nin doesn't that will help tank better? Does more evasion pay off that much in the end?

I'm very interested in this, I was told as a pld I couldn't tank somethings as well w/o blink and now I'm hearing otherwise?