High lvl Warrior - Tanking Viability (Sub Nin and Sub Mnk)

[Ozymandis]

I'd keep both NIN and MNK levelled and use both situationally. Versus monsters with Double Attack, NIN sub loses much of its effectiveness.

If you're really dedicated to the tanking side of our job, try to keep at the least parry and maybe shield capped. I see PLDs and NINs parrying quite a bit... WAR won't parry that much but it's something to help with taking damage. This is a ton of work, even if you've been tanking every party you probably won't have capped parry without joining many skillups

Originally posted by Voila!
I heard trick attack has no hate controlling effects when thief is subbed. This may be why Drk/Thf aren't as useful as Thf/.

You're right about DRK/THF not being as useful as THF (in terms of pure hate control). But as others have pointed out, TA still passes hate.

What is bad about DRK/THF is that you're not getting that initial SATA crit that thieves will give you. After a couple of parties tanking with DRK/THF hate controllers, I'm not overly fond of that combination with WAR tank in pickup parties. That initial crit goes a long way to establishing hate against mages and others who have their heads up their asses when it comes to managing their aggro.

[Macht]

Yes, WAR/MNK is actually a much better tank then WAR/NIN. With the sub MNKs martial arts abilities and using H2H weapons you do tend to hold hate a lot easier. The hate you get seems to be determined by varried conditions. You'll get a lot of hate if you deal a huge amount of damage, if you hit more often then anyone else, or restore a huge amount of health.

As WAR/NIN you are basically a gimped MNK in damage even with the Double Attack the damage you do isn't to great (When using Defender and Fish Mithkabobs). This combination is definatly not the best for tanking but it is supreme in dealing damage as long as you are using meat mithkabobs and Berserk often.

Then you will deal a good amount of damage but your defense take a serious hit, even with the ability to use Utsusemi it's way to high a risk factor. Especially when the damage you take is twice that of a gimped PLD playing as a tank.

The safer combination is using WAR/MNK with fish mithkabob or boiled carp and Defender. That along with some decent weapons and you can tank a lot better. As long as you keep your armor up-to-date like a tank would then the fish mithkabob along with defneder will reduce the damage you take to very minimal amounts.

On top of this you just about doubled your defensive abilities, the more abilities you have at decent levels the more frequent they do execute. So a WAR/MNK using an Axe and Shield will end up having Parry, Evasion, Shield, Guard, and Counter all of which has a good chance of kicking it and they do even better with a few DEX/AGI boosts.

A WAR/MNK with H2H will have all the same as mentioned except the Shielding, but now with the proper H2H that are decent in damage and mostly focused on low delay and you have one of the more incredible hate controls you can get. Also the Double Attack is now being taken more advantage of as well with 2 hits a round you are pushing the potential to do 4 hits a round (Not for damage mainly, but for hate control and TP build)

Once you pass the 100% TP mark then you just play a waiting game. The instant that Defender drops you slap on Berserk, execute a WS, remove Berserk, and put up Defender again. You really can't grasp the abilities that WAR/MNK has until you actually give it a decent and fair try. It's does have quite amazing tanking abilities, it's major flaws that it doesn't have compaired to PLD is not being capable of healing themselves, weaker shielding skill, and only gets 1 defense bonus opposed to the PLDs 3 bonuses.

Other then that the Armor that a WAR can wear is the same as the PLD or has an alternate version that is very similar.

[Ozymandis]

Using H2H is a very bad idea for anyone except THFs pre-33 (or maybe later, if you're fighting bones, I used h2h in the Grotto versus bones at 34 and was hitting 400-500 damage Combos).

[retrosolid]

ya, HtH is a very bad Idea to use with WAR...the thing that makes /MNK better is the abilities it provides

[laicram]

On H2H, there's actually a "sweet spot" with H2H + War/Mnk. From 48-55 War can use Raging Fists. Even with a D-ranking skill, Raging Fists is the most damaging WS a War can do until Rampage @55 (or Penta-Thrust @51)

As a damage-dealer, you can use Raging Fists to close skillchains (the bigger the last WS, ther bigger the Skillchain effect). Keep in mind, Raging Fists does not fit into "popular" skillchains - ask any Mnk.

As a tank, Raging Fists + Mermaid Ring is alot of hate - even if you miss. +2 Emnity per swing/action. I've done it. Other weirdness is that my Guard is capped at the sub-mnk's lvl, but it seems to activate more as a Mnk-Sub as a Mnk-Main. Ya, I tank with my Mnk, too =O

As with any unorthodox style, ppl will be mad and confused with you. Personally, I hate explaining myself to every other PT. Ask yourself if it's worth it. Other tips:

- Cap your Axes 1st. H2H is more of "a fun thing to do between 48-55" than anything else. Having a Mnk43, it made capping H2H easy.

- Liches at Eldieme, Bones at Garliage

- Ballista 50. Raging Fists is only 5-hit WS at this lvl.

Hmm maybe I should've put this in it's own thread - it does not relate to hi-lvl tanking =P

[Sheng]

Yes, WAR/MNK is actually a much better tank then WAR/NIN. With the sub MNKs martial arts abilities and using H2H weapons you do tend to hold hate a lot easier.

LOL

I stopped reading after that.