WAR and Shields.

[greysenn]

In fact, your dumbass shouldn't even be talking about full potential. Subbing ninja gives a ranger mucher better agi boosts then subbing warrior, AND you can dual wield weapons with +agi stats.

It's about the same agi. & hit rate on normal mobs for both subs. The only thing /nin is useful for on ranger is utsusemi. Btw, warrior sub kills ninja for damage, if you have a tank that can hold the hate.

Anycase, I'll contend utsusemi isn't super useful mid fight to a warrior. The seems to spend more time getting interrupted than anything. It's good at soaking the first 3-6 hits though.

[Xien]

I don't even know where to start.

Ask any ranger after sidewinder and I guarantee that they're thankful to have utsusemi. It's what saves their lives and unneccesarry healing.

Similarly, after a huge Rampage, Utsu is what saves you from getting screwdrivered, goblin-rushed, or whatever. Wouldn't you like to save your healer some MP?

For tanking, sure it's not godly, but it does help. My PT from 59- late 60 was:
War/NIN x2
DRK/WAR
BRD
RDM
BLM

We just juggled provoke and utsu and killed fast with little or no downtime.

My PT from 56-58's melee line was:
NIN/WAR
WAR/NIN
RNG/NIN

or the "Utsu Team". Skillchain was: Sidewinder >> Rampage.
Nin pretty much lost hate after Sidewinder, but I could voke off the ranger easily after rampage. Utsu basically made us take no damage at all even though the mob was bouncing around.

Useless? I don' t think so.

Xien

PS If you sub nin, you'd better have Utsu or you'll be the laughing stock of the server. No matter how good your reason is, you should still have it.

[poweryoga]

I'm a dumbass? You're a dumbass for not even knowing how to recast utsusemi in mid battle. Little thing called timing the hits?

Seeing how I have my war sub at lvl 35 and Nin at 30 already, I obviously know something about tanking and utsusemi cast times, and it is COMPLETELY possible to recast it inbetween hits. Hell, i do it all the time when I'm skilling off robber crabs or goblin mercenary/other crap. As a ranger, we recast utsusemi in mid battle being shit on more often than you do, since you don't even know how utsusemi works.

Do you play a ranger at all? no? Stfu please about the subjobs, I just finished an exp party with a 2 rng/war party that netted 6k exp per hour, in a fashion completely impossible to achieve with rng/nin.

What did they say when I asked should I sub nin or not?

"Nah, sub war."

No further bullshit from you is valid, since I do know about tanking/recast utsusemi in mid combat enough to know that it's possible, even on exorays/funnel bats, these mobs you seem to be so scared of for some reason.

If you're going to be dumb, do it in moderation so you don't look like a complete failure of a tank as you make yourself out to be.

Dear god! I can't recast utsusemi in mid battle! save me whms!! :spin:

[Rico]

We have such small shields nothing compared to a Paladins sheild .

When I played a White Mage I pratice the timing of the enemys hits so I wont get interrupted <.<'

[laicram]

Originally posted by Rico
We have such small shields nothing compared to a Paladins sheild .

When I played a White Mage I pratice the timing of the enemys hits so I wont get interrupted <.<'

FYI, Hard Shield is a kite-shaped shield the War48 can use. It's colors match the Lvl55 Chainmail set. Balance Buckler is still a better shield, and matches the sexay Mithril Armor set.

[Synbios]

Originally posted by Rico
We have such small shields nothing compared to a Paladins sheild .

When I played a White Mage I pratice the timing of the enemys hits so I wont get interrupted <.<'

Even DRKs get to use the shields that PLDs use, and we have to share shields with wimpy RDMs, helps save my inventory space though.

[Meimei]

My shield is not small, it's the best shield you can buy in the game.

_______________

Warrior 75
Thief 37
Ninja 37
Samurai 37
Monk 15
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17309
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17313

[lun4tic]

Originally posted by poweryoga
I'm a dumbass? You're a dumbass for not even knowing how to recast utsusemi in mid battle. Little thing called timing the hits?

Seeing how I have my war sub at lvl 35 and Nin at 30 already, I obviously know something about tanking and utsusemi cast times, and it is COMPLETELY possible to recast it inbetween hits. Hell, i do it all the time when I'm skilling off robber crabs or goblin mercenary/other crap. As a ranger, we recast utsusemi in mid battle being shit on more often than you do, since you don't even know how utsusemi works.

Do you play a ranger at all? no? Stfu please about the subjobs, I just finished an exp party with a 2 rng/war party that netted 6k exp per hour, in a fashion completely impossible to achieve with rng/nin.

What did they say when I asked should I sub nin or not?

"Nah, sub war."

No further bullshit from you is valid, since I do know about tanking/recast utsusemi in mid combat enough to know that it's possible, even on exorays/funnel bats, these mobs you seem to be so scared of for some reason.

If you're going to be dumb, do it in moderation so you don't look like a complete failure of a tank as you make yourself out to be.

Dear god! I can't recast utsusemi in mid battle! save me whms!! :spin:

Wow where to begin, there's so much bullshit here that calling you a hypocrite doesn't begin to explain it.

You are making shit up to a prove a useless point. Arguing with some one who knows what they're talking about doesn't do you any good, then trying to criticize me with kiddish imitations just further dulls your point.

I've been in several situations where casting Utsusemi would have made things worse, and better yet I was just in a party with a 'blink tanker' who didn't tank shit because he lost all hate while trying to blink all the time. I stole hate by using food, that's how lame it was.

So it comes down to dodging hits and letting other people take hate while I do virtually nothing, or take the hate myself and dish out some major damage. Hmm, what to do. What to fucking do?

You just stick nuking effortlessly while the people who know how to tank deal with it. Tanking worker crawlers is nothing compared to higher levels; you think because you have a warrior leveled you're the warrior master and everything you say about it is correct. You're lamer then Utsusemi, which I have by the way.

I'm even thinking about quiting ninja, because there's already enough damage dealers out there and not enough quality tanks. I truely regret not selling Utsusemi.

[Xien]

Originally posted by lun4tic

I've been in several situations where casting Utsusemi would have made things worse, and better yet I was just in a party with a 'blink tanker' who didn't tank shit because he lost all hate while trying to blink all the time. I stole hate by using food, that's how lame it was.

That's what I call either a "Shitty-tanker" or a "Shitty PT". I've seen NIN tanks hold hate after a Sidewinder >> Sidewinder SC. Only lost hate after Sidewinder >> Barrage craziness. How many NIN tanks do you know that the 2 rangers can go wild on? As you can see, there's always the two extremes.

Originally posted by lun4tic

So it comes down to dodging hits and letting other people take hate while I do virtually nothing, or take the hate myself and dish out some major damage. Hmm, what to do. What to fucking do?

Ever considered you getting hit for damage also reduces your hate? If you time it right and get Utsu cast, you miss at most a single turn. Does (one turn - 3 hits from the enemy to you) = major hate? Debatable. And you won't wonder what to do when that Terror Pugil screwdriver's your ass for 500+ damage (ie. sub NIN and cast Utsu).

Originally posted by lun4tic

You just stick nuking effortlessly while the people who know how to tank deal with it. Tanking worker crawlers is nothing compared to higher levels; you think because you have a warrior leveled you're the warrior master and everything you say about it is correct. You're lamer then Utsusemi, which I have by the way.

No, having a warrior lvled does not make anyone a warrior-master. The same applies to you.


IMO: Seriously, what's so fucking hard to see? Utsusemi has it's uses.

Everyone knows that monsters tend to do special skills when you do a multi-hit or some big damage move (Jetstream I think, is a counter not monster TP based). After that especially strong rampage, dodging a screwdriver sure feels nice. Eating that jetstream does not.

When you pull raptors in sorrow val., good luck making it to camp at full health without Utsu. Those things usually eat 2 or all of my shadows after I get to camp. And no one give me the "WAR's don't pull" bullshit. You're going to send a Drk/War that takes more damage than you out there?

Regarding War/Nin tanks: It works, and at times, works REALLY well. It's just not as versatile as a PLD or a NIN tank.

Times when it works well:
-Offense-oriented PT (something like WHM RDM RDM THF DRG WAR probably won't work well). Kill fast so you take less damage over 1 enemy. Offense is the best defence, etc.
-2 War/Nin PTs. Ghetto Nin tanks still works at 58-60. Not too sure at higher lvls.
-Bard/Rdm Pts + slow hitting enemies (like crabs, crawlers, goblins). With elegies and slow sticked onto the enemy...recasting utsu:ichi becomes incredibly easy.
- Whm/Smn with garuda PTs (50+). Garuda blink makes recasting utsu very easy. Six initial shadows + 3 blinks from garuda + 3 after recasting ichi means 12 shadows. Usually with an offensive oriented PT, the mob is usually dead by then.
-Good and observant Drk+Blms in PT - These guys will tag-team stun the enemy when you need to recast utsu. them very much

To me, that bag of Shihei is well worth it.

Xien

[kowboy]

Originally posted by Xien

-Bard/Rdm Pts + slow hitting enemies (like crabs, crawlers, goblins). With elegies and slow sticked onto the enemy...recasting utsu:ichi becomes incredibly easy.

Our PLD went afk during garliage coffer hunt, so I ended up tanking when we pulled a fallen major. The bard used carnage elegy and RDM casted slow. Those 2 debuffs are a godsend to utsusemi tankers. He only hit me once in the time it takes for utsusemi to recharge and for me to recast (I was hasted also).

[poweryoga]

Wow where to begin, there's so much bullshit here that calling you a hypocrite doesn't begin to explain it.

You are making shit up to a prove a useless point. Arguing with some one who knows what they're talking about doesn't do you any good, then trying to criticize me with kiddish imitations just further dulls your point.

I've been in several situations where casting Utsusemi would have made things worse, and better yet I was just in a party with a 'blink tanker' who didn't tank shit because he lost all hate while trying to blink all the time. I stole hate by using food, that's how lame it was.

So it comes down to dodging hits and letting other people take hate while I do virtually nothing, or take the hate myself and dish out some major damage. Hmm, what to do. What to fucking do?

You just stick nuking effortlessly while the people who know how to tank deal with it. Tanking worker crawlers is nothing compared to higher levels; you think because you have a warrior leveled you're the warrior master and everything you say about it is correct. You're lamer then Utsusemi, which I have by the way.

I'm even thinking about quiting ninja, because there's already enough damage dealers out there and not enough quality tanks. I truely regret not selling Utsusemi.

whatever you say, shitty tank. Making up stupid stories to cover up your incompetence doesn't make you a good tank.

You're right about not selling utsusemi. Someone else could've bought it and put it to good use instead of you wasting it on your character since you don't know how to use it.

[Bigokk McGock]

I'm not going to get into the arguments here, but I want to post my thoughts on the subject.

To be able to use Utsusemi:Ichi successfully, you need to have a few other things happen and have a good understanding of everything dealing with it.

Your support cast (PT members) are the key. If they do not understand Utsusemi, recasting it without their help will not be very fruitful.

Slow
Very important that all mobs are slowed, this increases their attack delay and helps you better time your casts and a lot of times, you will be able to time it and other times you won't, depending on the delay or any other random factor such as double attack, dual wield mobs etc.

Stun
Stun is also very important, work with the BLM or DRK in your PT, let them know when to stun so you can recast Utsusemi. This is one of the most helpful spells and once you get it down, will reduce damage taken, and greatly increase xp/hour. The best way that I've found is to time the mobs attacks, have their spell hit as soon as the mob's attack hits. The stun should hit at the same time you start casting Utsusemi. When the stun wears off, the mob still has all that waiting time before it gets it's next round of attacks (since it was stunned a split second after it's previous attack).

Ninjitsu
Eventhough you have maxed Ninjitsu, you are using it as a subjob, so your Ninjitsu is only a half as effective as it would be if Ninja was your main. I learned from a high level Nin earlier that the interrupt rates on Utsusemi have to do with how much you get hit for. The damage amount allowed before an interrupt occurs increases as your Ninjitsu skill increases. BUT...since you are using Ninjitsu as your sub, this will not be much of a factor and you will get interrupted most of the time if hit while casting. This is because the mobs at your level will be hitting for more than the allowed amount of damage before an interrupt (because your Ninjitsu skill is half your main skill level).

[lun4tic]

Originally posted by poweryoga
whatever you say, shitty tank. Making up stupid stories to cover up your incompetence doesn't make you a good tank.

You're right about not selling utsusemi. Someone else could've bought it and put it to good use instead of you wasting it on your character since you don't know how to use it.

Oh yes, the holier then thou response. This is why I can count the amount of rangers I like on one hand with no fingers.

That's what I call either a "Shitty-tanker" or a "Shitty PT". I've seen NIN tanks hold hate after a Sidewinder >> Sidewinder SC. Only lost hate after Sidewinder >> Barrage craziness. How many NIN tanks do you know that the 2 rangers can go wild on? As you can see, there's always the two extremes.

I have never seen a ninja that can keep hate off me. Even in the Quicksand Caves the ninja had a thief to trick off him for hate, and that still couldn't keep it off me.

Ever considered you getting hit for damage also reduces your hate? If you time it right and get Utsu cast, you miss at most a single turn. Does (one turn - 3 hits from the enemy to you) = major hate? Debatable. And you won't wonder what to do when that Terror Pugil screwdriver's your ass for 500+ damage (ie. sub NIN and cast Utsu).

I understand that taking damage reduces hate, but with Dual Wield II and Haste I can keep the hate coming faster then it can disappear.

When you pull raptors in sorrow val., good luck making it to camp at full health without Utsu. Those things usually eat 2 or all of my shadows after I get to camp. And no one give me the "WAR's don't pull" bullshit. You're going to send a Drk/War that takes more damage than you out there?

The only time I pull is when I'm the highest in the group. We usually have a Thief or Ranger subbing ninja that can pull.

Regarding War/Nin tanks: It works, and at times, works REALLY well. It's just not as versatile as a PLD or a NIN tank.

Agreed.

-Bard/Rdm Pts + slow hitting enemies (like crabs, crawlers, goblins). With elegies and slow sticked onto the enemy...recasting utsu:ichi becomes incredibly easy.

Unfortunately Brds are a rarity on Seraph, and our red mage barely enfeeble. Rdms usually go between back up healing and refreshing. This is probably why I can't recast Utsu.

- Whm/Smn with garuda PTs (50+). Garuda blink makes recasting utsu very easy. Six initial shadows + 3 blinks from garuda + 3 after recasting ichi means 12 shadows.

Sorry, that party blink counts as Utsu: Ichi. Whenever I have U:I cast it tells me it has no effect of me. Like trying to cast sneak on some one who has it.

[Xien]

Originally posted by lun4tic


I have never seen a ninja that can keep hate off me. Even in the Quicksand Caves the ninja had a thief to trick off him for hate, and that still couldn't keep it off me.

Then you play with some sucky NINs.

Originally posted by lun4tic

I understand that taking damage reduces hate, but with Dual Wield II and Haste I can keep the hate coming faster then it can disappear.

So what? Using utsusemi I lose Dual Wield II and Haste 1? When the heck did that happen? Last time I checked, /NIN was required to cast Utsusemi. Which means I get Dual Wield II. On a successful cast you lose at most 1 swing turn. Without utsusemi, you get hit for about 200 total on those 3 hits.

Originally posted by lun4tic

The only time I pull is when I'm the highest in the group. We usually have a Thief or Ranger subbing ninja that can pull.

And you don't party with anyone else? No Monks? No SAMs? No Drks? I don't like playing with THFs because Distortion is what they mostly do and I can't start it with Axe or GAX. In a typical PLD+2melee-pt, that means Distortion is out. Even if you do PT with a THF, utsusemi would be extremely useful, as the THF can happily SATA off you without fear of you dying. How many Drks/Mnks do you know like being SATAed?

Originally posted by lun4tic

Sorry, that party blink counts as Utsu: Ichi. Whenever I have U:I cast it tells me it has no effect of me. Like trying to cast sneak on some one who has it.

You don't understand what I mean. Puller comes with mob, you'll have ichi casted already with the timer at 0. That means you can recast another 3. That's 6. When the 6 runs out, the WHM casts Garuda giving you another 3. That's 9. Then cast Ichi again when the garuda blink runs out. That's 12.

[lun4tic]

Utsusemi takes forever to cast, which takes time away from attacking. This is why ninjas can't keep hate off me, and why Haste sometimes becomes a tank only spell so they can keep hate.

Maybe the ninjas are crappy, or maybe I'm just too powerful. This thread is getting old you keep pointing out the same points, and I keep refuting them, then you guys turn kiddish and insult me as if it furthers your point and purpose of posting.