I do not encourage ppl to work on sam sub

[Meimei]

I do not encourage people to work on samurai sub.Samurai sub are useless before you reach lvl 60. The only thing you will get is the 3rd eye and miner tp bonus. When you get lvl 60, you get Meditate which is good but the only reason you sub samurai is to Shield Break or Armor Break > Meditate > Renkei and at lvl 60- lvl 62 you fight raptors in Valley of Sorrow or pumas in Onzozo which they are not weak against ice or wind. At lvl 63 you fight cockatrice in terrigan which you can use Armor Break > Meditate > Renkei. At lvl 64-65 you fight crawlers in Boyahda which you can use Shield Break > Meditate > Renkei. At lvl 66 you get Mistral Axe, Dark Knight gets Spining Slash, Thief gets Shark Bite, Monk gets Dragon Kick and they will all sub Thief and either Sneak Trick WS behind you or Sneak Trick WS behind the tank and either way you will take heavy damage. To avaoid being hit so hard you must sub ninja for ninja blink which you get 6 free hits +3> by the time when you 6th free hit worn off the enemy is already dead or being pulled off by paladin. Also i notice that when i dual wield, Mistral Axe gets 90% chance to double attack. So basicly you work on samurai sub just to make it effective from lvl 63-65 and from lvl 66 you retire samurai sub and sub ninja which is not worth it.

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Warrior 71
Thief 37
Ninja 37
Samurai 35 <retired>
Monk 15

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[EtRNaL168]

I see. Please insert some punctuations

[Funguwari]

Really? Can anyone else (high Lv WARs) confirm this?

[Tokri]

SAM sub is worthless until you get meditate. It doesn't give you any good abilities, EXCEPT maybe TP Store - but having Sneak Attack is so much better. SAM is for a damage dealing WAR anyway, I would never pick a WAR/SAM to tank.

[Meimei]

"SAM is for a damage dealing WAR anyway" Wrong, that extra solo Raging Rush is not going to effect the battle at all, and you may miss 1 hit, even unlucky miss 2 hits. Sam sub is for support, for example Breaks > Meditate > Renkei. At lvl 66+ sam sub has become useless, because you use axe for Mistral Axe, and axe does not have Break ability. and you get 90% chance to double attack Mistral Axe with ninja sub, weird but it's true, well at lvl 70+ at least. And why Mistral Axe? Because Mistral Axe 350 dmg "550 If double attack" > Spining Slash "sneak+trick" 750 dmg + 700 light is too own. Even stronger, Red lotus 150 > raging axe 250 > Spining Slash "sneak+trick" 750 + 1100 light. Note 3 chain ws on lvl 3 renkei gives 150% bonus if not resist.

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Warrior 71
Thief 37
Ninja 37
Samurai 35 <retired>
Monk 15

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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17313

[DerekKnight]

Originally posted by Meimei
[B]"SAM is for a damage dealing WAR anyway" Wrong, that extra solo Raging Rush is not going to effect the battle at all, and you may miss 1 hit, even unlucky miss 2 hits. Sam sub is for support, for example Breaks > Meditate > Renkei. At lvl 66+ sam sub has become useless, because you use axe for Mistral Axe, and axe does not have Break ability. and you get 90% chance to double attack Mistral Axe with ninja sub, weird but it's true, well at lvl 70+ at least. And why Mistral Axe? Because Mistral Axe 350 dmg "550 If double attack" > Spining Slash "sneak+trick" 750 dmg + 700 light is too own. Even stronger, Red lotus 150 > raging axe 250 > Spining Slash "sneak+trick" 750 + 1100 light. Note 3 chain ws on lvl 3 renkei gives 150% bonus if not resist.

Actually, I'd very much agree WAR/SAM is for DD WAR. You say it's for support, which WAR is support with Break throughout it's entire career (except when you go WAR/NIN at 74 for blink tanking if you wish). Break > Meditate > Renkei. Well, I'd still call tht dealing damage. MORE damage since you broke for that extra ability to land your renkei. That's dealing damage. Something unique to WARs.

Also, why the heck is WAR/SAM unless just using Axe? Just because you can maybe land an extra hit on Mistral Axe? You do realize, you can actually land a Shield Break with the G. Axe, switch to 1h Axe, meditate, and soon be ready to go with Mistral Axe (not to mention still Double Attack with it anyways naturally)? Yeah, you gather TP quickly anyways with /NIN, but to say /SAM is useless up until 74 is rather baseless.

Both subjobs are very useful for WARs, and it all ends up personal preference. However, you can't say SAM is useless for us WARs at a certain lvl. Hell, I wouldn't say it at all.

[Sasarai]

what she is saying sounds reasonable sir, she lists what she thinks is wrong, and provides reasonable evidence of why she thinks this way,

on the other hand you are saying she is not fully considering samurai sub when in fact, she has.

[Meimei]

At lvl 66, Ninja sub is not just for dual wield, the most critical for Ninja sub is to have Ninja Blink. Again at lvl 66 Mnk gets dragon kick, drk gets spining slash, thf gets sharkbite "all fragmentation" and they will all sub thf. There are 2 ways when you renkei, 1 the drk,mnk,thf will Sneak+trick WS behind you which the enemy will turn and attack you. 2 the drk,mnk,thf will Sneak+trick behind the pld and before renkei, you will have to make the enemy attack you. either way 1 or 2 you will take HEAVY DAMAGE, heavy enough that your hp will go down from 1250 to 500 in a few hits because sometimes you will have berserk on. But with ninja blink you will take NO DAMAGE because you get 6 free hits +3>. Also i have experience that Greater Monticore hit me for 300 + special 950 and i die in 1 sec and they done that to me 3 times when i tried to make it hit me before renkei.

Note When you get lvl 68 Shield Break is no longer needed because warrior's acc has gone up too high and i dont think drks have problem hitting the monster either cause they share the same equipment. Check my equipment and you will see why our acc gone up too high

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Warrior 71
Thief 37
Ninja 37
Samurai 35 <retired>
Monk 15

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17309

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17313

[tomiko]

Thanks for confirming my similar beliefs on sam sub. (Reluctant to start my lvl1 sam -_-;

THF and NIN are the best subs endgame, IMO. I've gone /nin most of the time cus blink is so nice.

I've found that war/nin can make an awesome tank post 60 IF u have a brd in the PT. Carnage Elegy slows the mob ALOT, which allows me to cast Utsusemi1 every 30 sec. This really rocks with Manticore since they hit so slow, and I can tank them without taking a hit other than breath attack. Dual Axes = great dmg/hate. I've kept aggro against rng, drk/sam, and blm.
Grr... and i'm only 2 lvls from Mistral Axe.

Also MeiMei, I see you are lvl 71. May I ask about the strategy you used to beat Maat? :sweat:
I'm thinking about leading with 2 Mighty Strikes Raging Rushes, with opo opo necklace and icarus wing.

[DerekKnight]

Originally posted by Meimei
[B]At lvl 66, Ninja sub is not just for dual wield, the most critical for Ninja sub is to have Ninja Blink. Again at lvl 66 Mnk gets dragon kick, drk gets spining slash, thf gets sharkbite "all fragmentation" and they will all sub thf. There are 2 ways when you renkei, 1 the drk,mnk,thf will Sneak+trick WS behind you which the enemy will turn and attack you. 2 the drk,mnk,thf will Sneak+trick behind the pld and before renkei, you will have to make the enemy attack you. either way 1 or 2 you will take HEAVY DAMAGE, heavy enough that your hp will go down from 1250 to 500 in a few hits because sometimes you will have berserk on. But with ninja blink you will take NO DAMAGE because you get 6 free hits +3>. Also i have experience that Greater Monticore hit me for 300 + special 950 and i die in 1 sec and they done that to me 3 times when i tried to make it hit me before renkei.

Note When you get lvl 68 Shield Break is no longer needed because warrior's acc has gone up too high and i dont think drks have problem hitting the monster either cause they share the same equipment. Check my equipment and you will see why our acc gone up too high

We'll agree to disagree. You don't encourage people to work on it, I do. Both have points.

btw, I checked out your equipment, Of course, you're set on accu, you're a Mithra =P I'd skip the Sniper's and just get STR rings personally =) Maybe that extra def might help in not dying in 2 hits. ^^

[Meimei]

Opo Opo Necklace > 12 Sleep Potion > tp 300

Attacker Gear > meat mith kabob

berserk > aggressor > warcry > mighty strike

Attack on 300 dmg > raging rush 1500 dmg > icarus wing instant 100 tp > raging rush 900 dmg > fragmentation 500 > Dead Maat.

I beat him on 1st fight.

On my gear, only hard piece to get is Haubergeon rest of them are easy. Thick armors are only 30k-70k. And Acc > all, once you miss you do no dmg and you gain no tp.

_______________

Warrior 71
Thief 37
Ninja 37
Samurai 35 <retired>
Monk 15

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17309

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?17313

[specular]

Thanks Meimei for sharing your in-game experience. This is what I've been looking for. No offense to Samurai, I think it's a cool job, but after leveling Thf, Mnk, Nin (and some others) to 30+ I just don't want to do Sam.

Please close the thread now so that nobody can make an intelligent remark about subbing Sam

[Ariesknight]

Are all these chains using 1H Axe? What about a WAR specialising in G.Axe's at 70+?

[Bigokk McGock]

Raging Rush is a Great Axe WS

[Ariesknight]

Oh, cool, so I'll get by just with my G.Axe I'm so happy, hate 1 H axes.