WAR/NIN vs WAR/SAM End Game

[Ka-Tu]

Question for high level warriors:

For a pure offensive warrior build, which deals more damage War/Nin or War/Sam?

I realize War/Nin is great for tanking, etc. but when looking at just the offensive abilities between the two subs you have

a) Meditate [only 60%] / Store TP (1&2)
b) Dual Wield (1&2)

For high end MOBs and HNMs which is going to be doing more damage? I've heard a lot of high HNMs take the majority of their dmg from WS and very little from regualr hits, which would lean me towards War/Sam.

Answers appericated.

[TokeN]

Sorry I am not a high level warrior but I am pretty sure /sam deals more damage.

[Bluejoker1118]

WAR/NIN is better simply b/c you have Utsusemi

[Shann_Phoenix]

Level both and go according to the situation, war/nin would be better for xp group if you're main tank with blink, while war/sam is more a utility dmg dealer since with meditate you can always start the battle with a break.

HNM wise, i would go war/sam, leave the tanking to pld cause in holding hate nobody will them and their 2hour is really usefull in that situation.

Mediatate does return only 60% tp but that's enough be a war to use a breaker at each fight, while nin blink really become much better when you gain access to utsusemi 2 at nin 37, so war 74/37.

I think the war job is about versatility so leveling all subs (mnk, thf, sam, nin, whm/rdm) and using them according to the situation. If you want a 1 sub/class you're somewaht better off playing drg, sam or a caster.

[Rudo]

For HNM I would say NIN is more useful because imo you can never have enough tanks for them since one can die in the blink of an eye. The other day I saw a WAR/NIN and NIN/WAR tanking Bune with a THF switching hate between them. Seemed to work really well and they didn't lose hate until the very end when they died(the fight was won though :sweat: ). But as always, keep your subjob options open depending on the situation.

[laicram]

Originally posted by Shann_Phoenix

I think the war job is about versatility so leveling all subs (mnk, thf, sam, nin, whm/rdm) and using them according to the situation. If you want a 1 sub/class you're somewaht better off playing drg, sam or a caster.

That is a great point. A War's path is not absolute. Many sub combinations are plausible.

[KamaAina]

Im not a high lvl either. But I have heard that the high lvl axes are better then the great axes.


Edit: Oh and I think that Haste + 2 axes + Mighty Strikes is pretty powerful. Even at my lvl when I did it + Warcry I was hitting for 80-100 damage on my criticals and I had alot of + acc gear on so I only missed once while it was up and I got in a 3 hit combo (for like 260 damage) and a 4 hit combo (for like 350 or something). Then once MS wore off I just flipped on berserk and used Raging axe for another 250 damage. I was shocked.

Oh and one more question not about end game but about around lvl 50. There are 2 weapons I am considering Gigant axe, and dual weilding 2 Viking axes. I want to use the 2 viking axes because 2 of them would give me +20 accuracy plus if I needed it a life belt alltoegether that would be +30 accuracy in other words I would never miss. But they also have -10 evasion each, but I heard that at higher lvls you aren't going to evade the mob much anways. In which case I would just junk my emp hairpin and drone earings and get beetle +1s and a helm. Plus at lvl 50 I also get dual weild II. But what about WS? So far the only one I use really is Raging Axe it does the most damage. But how are the higher lvl Axe weapon skills compared to say the Great axe ones?

[Shann_Phoenix]

Get both viking axe and gigant axe, for versatility. Sometimes a group will ask you to use a breaker ws or you will need sturmwind for a fragmentation sc or keen edge for a dark elemental ws.

Belt wise you will want a life belt when you use a great axe. If you dual wield 2 viking axes, maybe you can use a swordbelt since you already got +20 acc.

You can use 2 macros to change your gear and changing your belt at the same time.

[KamaAina]

Well I always carry multiple sets of equipment I have all 4 gobbie bags. So I was already planning on doing this but...if say Axes were worthless or say from lvl 34-40 were the Great Axe (heavy+1) totally owned 1 handers of the same lvl then I would rather sub /thf or /mnk since the Ninjas dual weild becomes less usefull.


And my big question is how good are high lvl axe skills compared to say Raging Rush? I can't even find a list of all the axe weapon skills most sites end at the lvl 150 skill.

[TokeN]

I thought he was asking which dealt most damage?

Well of course /nin is the best tank 74-75. But i dont know about before, how many shadows does it cast? I wanna try subbing it this weekend...

Because i think ninja would hold hate better since you wont be getting hit as much as monk. But I dont have dodge for it yet so i wouldn't know how good that is.

[KamaAina]

Well Nin casts 3 shadows with utsusemi one but I have had it last to 10 shadows because it factors in things like agi and evasion and parrying. (My parrying is maxed 2 one handed axes does wonders for parrying btw). So it can last longer and I find that if the WHM casts slow on the mob I can get hit at most 3 times during the battle because if I cast the first utsusemi before the fight another right before it wears off and then once that wears off I take one hit and then cast it agian in between swings. So it works as a blink tank even at my lvl. It is not as effective agianst crawlers though as they double attack alot and definatley don't even attempt it on Mandragorias. But even if they do attack fast and it wears off that is still 3 hits that miss which with crawlers can be as much as 300 damage you don't take and this really reduces downtime.

I suggest though at crawlers nest that you do what I do and sub thf so you can use sheild break /nin isn't all that usefull agianst these kind of mobs.


But can someone plz answer my question what are the high lvl axe weapon skills like? How do they compare to Raging Rush.


Edit: and as for monk vs ninja when tanking. I say it depends on the mob, with good agi/evasion equipment dodge is really useful so I would use /mnk when tanking in places like Khazam and Crawlers nest because of the mobs fast hit rates and double attacks. But at a place like garliage where the mobs hit much slower I would definatley reccomend /nin as you can get utsusemi up for much longer and recast it no problem.

[tomiko]

At lvl49 150 skill: Axe gets Spinning Axe, which chains nicely. Its dmg is slightly better than Raging Axe, and is NOT area effect, like I hoped ;_; (for farming purposes).
At lvl55 175 skill, we get Rampage! Its a 5-hit WS with big dmg and TP return, and with dbl attack it will probably hit for 6-8x usually =)
At lvl60 200 skill, we get Calamity, a one-hitter... no idea on the dmg of this.
At lvl66 225 skill, we get Mistral Axe, another one-hitter... but I hear it sets up lvl3 light renkeis well.
At lvl70 240 skill, there is the quest WS Decimation, which is 3-hit and does lvl3 light renkeis too. =)

[KamaAina]

Thank you so much Tomiko I was worried there that the Axe WS's were second class.


Now if SE would just give dual weild bonuses to Weapon skills we would be set =).

I mean I am not expecting that they double the damage but at least gives us a little more damage and would it kill them to add in an animation I don't want to see that 5 hit WS hitting with just my right hand while my other one just lays limp.

[Asmandeus]

Axe AXE axe Axe AXE axe Axe AXE axe

I just hit 150+ with Axe last night and it was totally worth it. Spinning Axe is easily my most damaging ws right now. With sneak attacks I was doing +400 dmg to VT-IT beetles in quicksands. A little after that I did 683 to one of the three NM mobs for the 60 cap quest at level 51. I can't wait til Rampage (drool! 3 levels!) :spin:

Currently my Greataxe (155) is lagging behind a little, before it was my main weapon and Axe (158) was playing catch up. :p
That'll change though, I have 11k of xp to the next level and I'm sure that will give me plenty of time to cap those

About subs...

When I hit 60 I'm planning on working on 3 subs a bit. Currently my ninja sub is at 25, my thief is 18, and my samurai is 9 .

For XP subbing thief had been working well for me when I'm in the party for damage, I'm sure it'll rock even more when I play secondary tank with sneak/trick/insert-nasty-weapon-skill-here. Or perhaps they want me to sub samurai to be a breaker/renkei monster with a darknight's guillotine and my raging rush. Or maybe the PLD population is down for the night and they want me to ninja tank (btw using utsusemi, defender, aggressor, and fish chiefkabobs have been pretty awesome).

For HMN's I'm pretty sure we'd fall back to more of a secondary tanking role (but that doesn't mean we can't do our fair share of damage), and let the drg/rng/drk/whatever do the real damage.

[Enoki1]

From my observations. Rampage and Raging Rush are pretty much similar in dmg without modifiers. One area where rampage is better is on high evasion mobs. Some how raging rush seems to be slightly inaccurate. On sorrow valley raptors usually like 1~2 hits land without modifiers. 1 hit kinda happened a bit often without modifiers. Rampage would land 2~4 hits, 3~4 pretty often. Dmg wise on these raptors from both weapon skills without modifiers ranged from 60~200 usually. Rampage usually more constant at 150~170 range. Raging Rush was all over the place, 60 dmg from one hit, 150~200 if 2 or 3 hits. Rampage and Raging Rush is pretty much equal when you don't play with accuracy or attack modifiers (situations where i tank basically). Rampage might be slightly better on high evasion mobs when you aren't using attack modifiers.

In offense all out mode I would have to say Raging Rush >> Rampage. All out mode to me means meat mithakabob + beserk + aggressor + sneak attack everytime. In same place, sorrow valley raptors, Raging Rush ranged from 300~800dmg. 300~600dmg when 3 hits land and 700~800dmg when 4 hits land. 4 hits happened like 5~15% of the time. Rampage on the other hand did 300~500dmg. Damage potential on Raging Rush is a lot higher than Rampage for me at least most likely because of sneak attack. Sneak attack doesn't really increase 5 hit weapon skill dmg as much as 3 hit weapon skills. Also double attack works better on 2h weapons. In offensive situations definitely Raging Rush.

Calamity kinda sucks damage wise. At 100tp dmg is equal to spin axe. At 300tp dmg is equal to a 100tp rampage. Calamity basically one of those weapon skills for skill chaining rather then single weapon skill damage.