Double the thief, double the drop?

[Lambeaus]

My static is reaching 50 for the first time (currently 49) and we are starting to collect our genkai (sp) items for the cap quest. Now, the bomb coals weren't an issue. However, 4 of us spent about 30 minutes in the crawlers nest killing Exorays, and didn't get a single drop.

Now for my question. There will be 6 of us going in tomorrow (the crawler links were painful with us at 49). Normal party setup....NIN/WAR, WHM/BLM, RDM/WHM, DRK/WAR, RNG/THF, and I'm BLM/RDM.

The RNG/THF will have treasure hunter? Will it be worthless for me to go BLM/THF for a second player with treasure hunter? We will have a RDM and WHM for healing, and these mobs come us as Tough so they will be going down fairly quick anyway, I won't be needed for healing. Heck, when the three of us were there last time I was nuking here and there while doing some real nice damage with my scythe.

We still need 5 Exoray drops, 5 Lich drops, and two drops for the guys that weren't there for the Explosures. I'm thinking it my /THF will add to the drop rate, I might as well go with it.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

Treasure Hunter effects stack. The more party members being /THF15+, the higher the drop rate should be.

[silentsteel]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

yeah, Treasure hunter doesnt stack, would be more beneficial to sub something else

Edit: maybe it does, I've heard it doesnt.

[Lambeaus]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

lol

who to believe?

[na2tt300zx]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

It doesnt stack, thats what i heard

[Mhurron]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

It does and it doesn't, it depends on what you mean by stack. Ever noticed how you get in general get more drops from things as a party? Drops are calculated per member and dumped into the treasure pool. So if you have 2 or more people with TH, you have more chances that applying TH to the drops gets you what you want.

[Gobo]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

I believe the only official word (from the Dev team during an interview) on treasure hunter is that the THF or /THF has to be in the Party in the zone for it to kick in (though some will say that the THF or /THF has to hit the mob as well).

That being said, the most commonly believed idea is that TH just adds an extra "roll" on whether an item will drop (items are believed to be distributed through a hidden random number generator system and rolling over the set value(s) makes the item drop. Each person in the PT adds a roll as well) and more than one THF or /THF per PT doesn't help. This is, of course, just theory and guessing. The only 100% true part is the in the first paragraph.

[Omni]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

this is one of those things that the dev's wont fully reveal. for obvious purposes.

i believe all what was really said in the interview was what gobo said. that they had to be in pt in the zone. i think they kinda eluded to the fact that you didnt need to hit the mob or get kill shot. still, its all very secretive.

[Necropolis]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

Just from observation, I'd have to believe that it does stack in a way. Treasure hunter can't just make and "extra roll" because would that effect Treasure Hunter 2 and Treasure Hunter + items effect the roll? Does it add another roll or increase percentage of drop rates?

I tend to think that each mob has a percent chance of dropping, and some random generator decides ultimatly on weather it drops or not. For example, lets say the random number generated is between 1 and a 100. For an item to drop that has say a 5% drop rate the number generated would have to be 1, 2,3, 4, or 5. I believe what TH does is increase the range of numbers that will make an item drop. Lets say TH1 adds 5% to the drop rate, now you could get a 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, or 10 and the item will drop. TH2 lets say adds 15% total to a drop rate you could get 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14, or 15. Items would add thier respective values as well.

This however doesn't address weather or not two TH1 from seperate party members add to the overall drop rate, or in essence stack.

From personal experience I'd have to say it does. When my LS does Limbus with multiple /thf or thf mains we see a significantly larger coin drop rate. My dyna shells see a significant boost in AF drops when all the thfs are present as well. With 9 thfs with TH4 (traits, knife, af) we've received 11 afs and 3 100 from an ice zone, which compared to many shells is a very good run. We've gotten over 20 afs/100s in cities with a full thf force.

It's hard to get accurate values on common drops like LB1 items and farming items as there are other factors as well (moon phase and probably several other factors). The only conformation I've been able to find by an official post of SE is that level difference of mobs and players has zero effect on the drop rate.

In conclusion, I'm convinced that TH effects from multiple people will increase drop rates. But as drop rates are variable as it is (with moon phase), it's hard to say if you'll notice the difference. I believe I'm also being generous in giving TH1 a 5% increase, it may be closer to 1%-3% increase in drop rates.

The liches will be, in my opinion, your hardest obsticle in LB1. Undead aggro low HP and sound, and are resistant to any type of damage except blunt. There are, I believe, 6 liches in the top rooms of the Necropolis, 2 below the main center room, and a few more through the glacier entrance. 16 minute respawns will drag this event out over hours and possibily days depending on your luck. I would recommend scheduling your next run for these to be during a full moon as drop rate is suppose to increase.

Sorry for the long post, and good luck. Hope this has been at least half way helpful.

EDIT: After reading through my first part of the post, it almost seems as though with enough thfs you'd have 100% drop rate. This surely cannot be, so I'm sure there is some point of diminishing returns or a cap on drop rate percentages.

[Omni]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

I think there are way too many factors to consider and probably some we havent even thought of, that play a role in influencing drops.

I've gone to kirin with 1 THF, and just TH2 and gotten some drops like osode+dbody+ignots. I've also gone to kirin with 2 THFs at TH3 both and gotten 3 crystals and 2 o.ingots. This goes for a lot of other events and mobs too. It's too haphazard to pin any sort of pattern down.

I think people want to be able to attribute their drops/luck to something so when they get good drops, they start looking for ways to explain it.

oh! its almost full moon and oh its like the th2 thf we had get the last hit or etc etc.

until we get more info from devs i think this sorta thing is going to always remain for the most part, a mystery.

edit: i know that some people have done tests on such things as killing crawlers for silks. however, a lot of these tests are full of holes and it still doesnt say for sure how much each TH is worth.

[Mhurron]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

For the OP's specific problem (getting G1 items) your best bet is probably take what ever subjob lets you last the longest and help your party the best. The fastest way to get multiple items like these is to kill the mobs as fast as possible, maximizing the possibility that what you want drops.

[Malacite]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

TH and TH2 from what I can tell seem to add an extra value to your "roll" on a drop, likely by a small %.

That said, it does seem as though the more party members you have the more rolls you get on an item. In that way, TH stacks by increasing the odds of each person's roll. You can't stack it in the sense that if you had 6 THF's there'd be enough TH mods to gurantee a drop (which is too bad, but oh well)

[little ninja]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

I think there are way too many factors to consider and probably some we havent even thought of, that play a role in influencing drops.
I've gone to kirin with 1 THF, and just TH2 and gotten some drops like osode+dbody+ignots. I've also gone to kirin with 2 THFs at TH3 both and gotten 3 crystals and 2 o.ingots. This goes for a lot of other events and mobs too. It's too haphazard to pin any sort of pattern down.
I think people want to be able to attribute their drops/luck to something so when they get good drops, they start looking for ways to explain it.
oh! its almost full moon and oh its like the th2 thf we had get the last hit or etc etc.
until we get more info from devs i think this sorta thing is going to always remain for the most part, a mystery.
edit: i know that some people have done tests on such things as killing crawlers for silks. however, a lot of these tests are full of holes and it still doesnt say for sure how much each TH is worth.

Thats how i feel with Dyn runs. We have allot of thfs spread out in parties with T.H3. An one of our new Thfs has the Af2 gloves. An our drops are no better then when we went 2 days earlier with hardly any thfs.

T.H2, + T.H+1 +T.H+1 An thats not including the the other thfs with their +3 T.H. Or any of our /thfs. An yet i seen some really shitty drops across the gaming board.

[Lambeaus]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

Thanks for all the insightful posts, lots of interesting theories
I think tonight I'll go BLM/THF, and the others will stay the same so there is no slowdown in the kills.

[Omni]

Re: Double the thief, double the drop?

I think the best idea for you guys is to go with your most optimal job combos. If you guys aren't getting any outside help from high lvl players, its going to be very rough for a Pt of 49s.

I'd suggest you go as blm/whm so you still have the ability to help cure if things get bad.