What sub-class goes best with thieves?

[Ryddr]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

This may not answer your question, but perhaps provide some insight. When I began playing this game, a little over 2 years ago, I was 14 years old and couldn't even comprehend the social structure of Vana'diel. Thinking that I could make my character anyway I wanted and that no one would have the right to say anything about it (which they shouldn't do anyhow imo). Anyway I went through my levels like this, not knowing there was a better way lol.

Thf Lv. 1-18
Thf/Mnk Lv. 18-33
Thf/Rng Lv. 33-60
Thf/Nin Lv. 60+

The loved Thf/Rng. I got a few O.o's while playing that sub, but no one really had anything bad to say about my playing style. Only when I played Thf21/Mnk8 did some random guy in jeuno spam his face off at me.

Now if I had Thf lv. 1 to start all over with, personally this is how I would do it:

Thf Lv. 1-18
Thf/Mnk Lv. 18-33 (With use of h2h weapons primarily)
Thf/War or Nin Lv. 33-75

In the higher levels, there are clearly no combinations for Thf that are more powerful that Thf/Nin and Thf/War. /Nin because of its versatility and /War because of its devastating spike damage.

Thf/Rng as noted somewhere earlier in this thread is best utilized on the hunting grounds, when you need to find an NM via widescan and flee to it quickly. One exp based benefit of Thf/Rng, however, was marksmanship skill is much easier to keep up with with sharpshot in your arsenal.

[Feba]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

Before it seems like i'm blocking out other subs, yes, others can work. THF/RNG is good with status bolts, THF/MNK can rip things up, and THF/WAR is just power.


I simply recommend /NIN in pickup groups because most people you Pt with WILL be stupid.


If you can get a good static PT, feel free to experiment more.

[Murphie]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

I've found that if I'm choosy about who I group with in pickups, then I can generally avoid most idiots. That allows me to be more specific in what I sub, since I'm not just trying to mitigate the stupidity of others.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

Yeah, we know you onry /Nin Feba. Really. No.. really.. you've made that perfectly clear. However... I don't tend to play with pickups, or at least not full parties of them.

675 damage for 22 MP - which transfers to the tank at the start of the fight, without using up your tp...

To quote a Red Mage...

"I'd put you on the Refresh cycle for that."

Because I'm not forced to /Nin, I can test other things to see what else is out there, other than the prevalent /Nin onry attitude that you so proudly bear.

- Saeriel.

[Feba]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

uh, no.

I'm recommending things for THF here, not WAR. They are different jobs, thus I have different opinions on them.

Spinn, the level he's talking about doesn't have RDMs with refresh. If THF/BLU works after that, sure it's fine. When you waste TP for it, it's not so much (And don't tell me you'll use juices, unless you're practically naked to make room for ingrediants)

The "Prevalent /NIN attitude" you're talking about is bullcrap, I don't find /NIN to be any better than /PUP by itself, it's all in application. There are some situations where WAR/DRG will beat WAR/NIN. Vice Versa. Everything has a time and a place. You don't need to bring this in here, if you want to flame me, take it to a more relevant thread, or PMs.

Anyway, the only person i've been PTing with consistantly lately has been a Japanese BRD friend (Met around lv30-31, Lv41 now, he's lv42.) He sets up the strategy, so it's easier to work with me. Typically, we had it as BRD WAR NIN THF <healer> <dd, esp. COR> , THF pulls, I voke, NIN WAR THF line up, SATA, NIN tanks the rest of the fight (Unless there's an emergency.)

THF/NIN helps when the THF pulls too close, my macros get sticky (read:ffxi eats them), I lag, when the mob has spells/ratk, etc.

I'm not saying /NIN is the end-all:be-all of subs, i'm saying it has purpose, especially when it's hard to find a true healer.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

Ok... well - from every Red Mage who I've spoken to and shown the things I've been doing with Thf/Blu - they've all said - Hell yes - you would up there, the damage/mp ratio is obscene.

And I quote:

Concerning THF/BLU, I know someone who used this, hjust for the high DEX (apperently)

I personally don't recommend it, as all it gives you are a few minor stat bonuses, unless you're casting spells with MP you don't have

I've just gone and been playing around with this out of boredom, because my static partners weren't about... and got some friends to voke and stand in places they wouldn't usually... and discovered... that Thf/Blu with SA and TA turns Thf into the most MP efficient nuker on the planet. Bar none (I have proper Black Mages saying - we wish we could do that amounts of damage, their Thunder IV's drain mp like nothing).

Name me one other spell that gives anywhere near that damage/mp ratio without being bursted on a weak mob. Oh wait - you won't be able to.

So, at his level - you are right... but 1 - 40 < 41 - 75 + merit. Hell, it's probably worth the bard putting you on a ballad too post 36 (when the combo becomes viable).

/Nin has it's place. Note that I count my Nin job as my standard sub. See the stats to the left. On a pure damage note, and utility - Thf/Blu blows Thf/Nin out of the water, by about 100 to 150 damage a minute, if geared correctly, because the DoT's about the same, but the initial SATA has that much more initial burst damage. So sure - the Rdm now has someone to make sure they refresh once every 3 - 4 minutes as well, but the Blm's can nuke a little harder, and the DD's can fight a little tougher too, because the starting hate from the tank is just a notch further up the chain.

Is it the *best* sub job? I don't know. Is it viable? Well - I'd like to think that an additional stunner, plus improved spike damage would warrant the consideration of /Blu without being shouted down by an eninently opinionated poster - who hasn't the experience to validate his dismissal. Is it the *best* dunno.. are the mages going - "Git.. I want that mp efficiency... /drool". Yes they are. My thfy friends are going: "Sae, you're one insane Taru - but it's so shiny." And the kiddie poster on ffxionline is saying "Well *I* don't recommend it." Big deal. I do. And I'm a Thf. A very good one.

- Saeriel.

[Taskmage]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

Oi. There's no fight here. Don't make one. I don't think Feba's done anything that could be called shouting someone down. He can disagree based on what he's heard from people who have tried it. People form opinions based on less all the time.

[Feba]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

kiddie poster, and you're a very good thf. Right. Dispite the fact that you very clearly didn't read what I said about refresh, which was in just the third line.

@thread:THF/BLU is like DRG/WHM. Incredible MP efficency, but most PTs will be completly incapable of using it properly, at least for now.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

I fail to see how not having a refresher is a problem, when the combo only really starts to work post 36, and further comes into it's own post 40 (Claw Cyclone), which is when shortly after, you get access to direct Refresh.

Secondly - I also fail to see how people can utilize more damage and stronger SATA's. Maybe that's me being simplistic.

I do skim, when I credit people with intelligence to read, analyse and be able to make informed assumptions when given a set of information. When the combo starts to work as a DD sub, you're at a given level already.

Giving advice to /Nin is the same - as... guess what, you've gotta be post 30 too to get it. I'm sorry for being irate with you, but - you can offer one thing, which has stipulations people take for granted now as they're no longer a new thing, yet a new thing, you can't make the same assumptions with - which have similar stipulations to them? I dunno... can you?

[Feba]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

Not all PTs will have a refresher. Most PTs pre41 won't, given the rarity of BRDs. Like I said though, if you've got a refresher, and you don't have to waste TP to do it, sure, go ahead and give THF/BLU a shot.

I don't even know what you were trying to say with that last paragraph... care to explain?

[Spinnthrift]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

By saying to someone that /Nin is the best sub, you're already assuming that a: they've unlocked advanced jobs, b: got the spells, c: taking a defined role at a certain level.

How does that differ to what I said?

I gave a set of information that can *only* work past a certain level, because you don't get access to the spells prior, so you can't make the leap of knowledge? It's not that big a step.

[Feba]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

I never said /NIN is the best sub. I said it is the most practical for the great majority of pickup PTs.

And what "leap of knowledge" are you talking about? I already said that there's 4 levels between when it works and when refresh becomes more common. If you're trying to make me look silly, you aren't doing a very good job.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

Okaaaay.. I really don't need to try and make you look silly.

I went out - tested something quickly, came up with numbers that neither myself nor the Rdm, nor the Drg who were helping me believed.. other than a lot of "WOW!" and other such exclamations being stated (in their amazement that it created large sums of damage).

Realised that it has merit, and explained that it did on this thread. Assumed given knowledge, and circumstance - in much the same way as happens commonly with other standard job combo's. You have a refresher in the party - it's a viable option, you don't have - you don't. It's not that complicated. Really.

All it is, is pushing Thf's damage out more - something that from experience - I can tell you that is lacking. If you read my opening post on this thread.. it says I might start playing that now - as it's really putting up impressive numbers (again - assuming people would check the level displayed and understand that they're reasonable sums of damage for a Thf to do on a SATA or the like). I didn't say more or less than that, till it got stated that all it was good for was a minor stat boost. Putting out more damage != minor stat boost, does it now?

Just lemme check.. 00 damage base Sneak Attack stab, vs 350 > 400 SA for 16mp, similar gains on SATA... "Just a stat boost."...

...

...

Just a stat boost.

Bless.

- Saeriel

[Taskmage]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

all it gives you are a few minor stat bonuses, unless you're casting spells

Your numbers are based on casting spells, are they not Spinnthrift? Would you argue that blu gives more than a stat boost if you cast no spells? I respect your idea, it sounds interesting, but you're making a big arguement out of nothing and succeeded only in derailing the thread.

[Feba]

Re: What sub-class goes best with thieves?

ou have a refresher in the party - it's a viable option, you don't have - you don't. It's not that complicated. Really.

Which is what I said.




Also, at your "Just a stat boost", same thing as what taskmage said.



Anyway, i'm goin' to bed now :3 laters ffxio