Moving from WHM to THF so got a few Qs.

[Dux]

Morning guys.

I noticed that this forum only has 48 posts on it (when viewed with Mozilla v1.7.2) so I couldn't find out the information I needed in previous posts so I thought I would ask.

I understand that SATA is a good mechanism to add hate to a particular member of the team and produces pretty impessive damage. What I don't quite understand is why the first SATA of the fight is not going onto the main tank. What is the purpose of splitting SATA onto somebody else other than the main tank at the beginning of the fight / any other time?

As a semi-intelligent guess I would image that the person with the first SATA has a way to shed hate (thus enabling the tank to gain control over the mob) and also helps position the mob such that it is facing away from the mages / in a good fighting position away from possible links.

As a side note, whilst examing the posts on this forum somebody mentioned "hate clearing". Is this like the DRGs "Jump" whereby the hate tricked onto the DRG can be cleared by a Jump or is it an ability for a THF to clear their own hate? If this is hate clearing then apart from JMP what other classes have hate clearing abilities I should know about?

Well if you could clear this up for me that would be great.

[neighbortaru]

err, who told you to SATA on someone other than the main tank? o.O That's just wrong. Hate should stay on one person and that person is the main tank. The only time you should even consider SATA on someone else is if the main tank is having a hard time keeping up and needs a breather (even then there are better ways to turn the mob) or you are going to land the killing blow.

[Sabastion]

I don't know why hate wouldnt be put on the tank asap?! Your partner should always voke or grab aggro before the tank.

Drgs High jump and Super jump shed hate also thf's Hide ability sheds all hate on SIGHT only mobs.

[Armando]

High Jump sheds hate? o.O

Anyways, regarding the original poster, I think you've got it mixed up. You never SATA onto anyone but the tank. However, the "trick buddy" must grab hate at the beginning of the fight so that the tank may place himself behind the mob and the THF behind the tank, giving them the proper placement for SATA. THEN the tank may voke and resume to hold hate as usual. Regarding hate clearing, Super Jump (and apparently High Jump) will clear hate from the user, and Hide will clear hate from the THF if the monster detects only by sight. This would let the trick partner clear the hate he got at the beginning of the fight. If I'm not mistaken, the typical SATA sequence is as such:

1) Puller brings mob
2) Trick Partner Provokes the mob
3) Tank stands behind the mob, THF stands behind the tank
4) THF SATA's hate onto the tank
5) Tank continues to hold hate.

Never actually done SATA before as I haven't levelled my WAR at all since I hit level 30, but I believe this is how it goes. An alternative to the Trick Buddy system is to cast Sleep on the mob so the tank and THF can align themselves behind it, however, this relies on the mob not resisting the Sleep, and takes some extra coordination, as care must be taken not to wake up the mob before the SATA.

[Sabastion]

Originally posted by Armando
High Jump sheds hate? o.O

Not all hate it does shed some. I don't recall there being an official amount but I'm guessing between 30-50%.

[Dux]

Thanks for the replies guys.

As for splitting SATA onto people who aren't the main tank, well nobody told me about this, I have just seen this done by so many THFs on Siren I thought there may actually be a purpose for it. It would seem not ^^

Glad I asked these questions now as my Mithra THF is still level 1 and don't want to form any bad habits.

[Omena]

Originally posted by Dux
Thanks for the replies guys.

As for splitting SATA onto people who aren't the main tank, well nobody told me about this, I have just seen this done by so many THFs on Siren I thought there may actually be a purpose for it. It would seem not ^^

Glad I asked these questions now as my Mithra THF is still level 1 and don't want to form any bad habits.

The thieves on Siren clearly suck.

The first SATA always goes onto the tank. If you think the tank has enough hate or the other melee is too dumb to voke again for SATA, you can SATA on the other melee when you are ready.

[Roldarin]

Its typically not the thieves fault if they don't SATA at the start of the fight onto the offtank. In my experience its usually the tank who insists on provoking first.

[Dnallan]

Kinda off topic but, you have a char on Remora, Islidin? I'm there too, if you're in Windurst, maybe we could party up sometime. I'm a lvl 4 THF name Yenfeh or Yehfeh (Sorry, I can never remember which one, haven't got much playtime lately) Maybe we could pt sometime. But now on topic, I thought you needed a party to immediately pull the hate off you for SA TA.

[Archibaldcrane]

Generally, in my experience of 71 lvls of thief, you start the fight with a SATA on the main tank (after the trick buddy grabs hate for a sec) then, depending on the tank, two things happen.

1. It is a PLD tank, and they don't lose hate no matter what I do (basically-the blm seems to pull off hate more often than me) so I feel free to load up my SATA(WS if available) on the trick buddy, just for extra dmg.

2. It is a Nin tank, so when my SATA comes up, I have the "trick buddy" (secondary melee) get hate (hopefully with voke) and I SATA back onto the NIN. It gives him time to get another utsusemi up and allows him to keep hate better.

In very few situations in the past 20 lvls or so have I been splitting my sneak attack from behind and trick attack solo on the tank - if you are finding that necessary, there is probably a problem with your party. That being said - don't get caught up with what "should" happen - part of being a thief is adapting to whatever hate-control situation you have and dealing appropriately.

Also, if you are fighting a mob that agros/tracks with sight only (Cocatrice, Yagudos, Dragons, others) then whenever possible, even if just for shits and giggles, you should be using Sneak/Trick/Hide to keep hate on the tank when available.

[Drynavere]

whilst examing

... lmfao... whilst

And yes, the Tank does get the first SATA. Have another melee voke it at start, then you SATA onto the PLD or Tank. Then by the time u can use it again, the Tank should be good enough to be able to keep hate on themselves if you SATA the other melee. Or if it does turn, they simply revoke or cure, or w/e it is they do to keep hate..

[Archibaldcrane]

Oh, and another thing - that second SATA should be hopefully within 20 secs of the first - activate SATA before you pull, so when you get back there will be >15 seconds on the counter. Engage from behind the tank (who is behind the mob), land your first blow, wait 10 secs, SATA again to your trick buddy.

[neighbortaru]

Originally posted by Roldarin
Its typically not the thieves fault if they don't SATA at the start of the fight onto the offtank. In my experience its usually the tank who insists on provoking first.

That's the point, THF are not supposed to SATA on the offtank, they're supposed to do it on the main tank. If the main tank is too stupid to hold his provoke until after you SATA, then that's a different matter.

Dnallan:
Sure, but it might be a while. Computer problems.

[Tokitoki]

Just so you guys know, Hide doesnt work on every sight only mob. Orcs, for example, arent fooled by Hide and are sight only :p

Just a heads up so nobody goes and trys to steal goldbeastcoins or pic coffers with hide in Monastic.

[DelennFFXI]

Originally posted by Tokitoki
Just so you guys know, Hide doesnt work on every sight only mob.

Anything that tracks by scent will cancel hide if you're on the mobs hate list (ie. attacked it while pulling, etc). That's why it doesn't work on Orcs (unless someone else pulled).

Deodorize is rumored to work, but I haven't had the inclination to test it yet for an ability with a 5 minute cooldown