Advanced Sunjob Thoughts...

[The Heretic]

Up untill now (when I started thinking), i had my heart set on being a THF/NIN. But now, looking back over it, it doesnt look as spectacular as it once did. Just for Dual weild when sheilds can give decent stats as well? Seemed pretty gimpish.

A subjob that caught my eye was SAM, but I thought to myself, naa, the stats would be considerably less, so I whipped out the stats calculator and took it for a test drive.

THF/NIN (Mithra)
Dex Agil
1174 0 62 94 62 84 68 45 41

THF/SAM (Mithra)
Dex Agil
1212 0 62 93 62 80 68 48 43

Differences negligable, at best.

So it becomes a case of Dual Weild and Stealth vs TP Store and Meditate. (Ninjitsu seems pretty limited).

Now, with my eyes open, Im starting to think /sam is the better subjob (with more useful abilities), yet there are more THF/NIN's than THF/SAM's.

Anyone have an opinion on this?

[sinfox]

yes^^

reason one would choose samurai is to gain 100%tp within 1:00.. as it is agreed that dagger weaponskill pointless without fuidama.

.. at level 25, ninja dual wield speed will supposidly increase.. level 50 for thief

.. at level 55, triple attack may be activated with either weapon

.. at 60, dancing edge will be 5 hit weaponskill, which (from what i have read) each hit may also trigger triple attack.

thief/ninja with good dex/accuracy should have little issue in gaining 100% tp vs it monster within 1:00 at level of 60...

.. extra stat increasing weaponry is nice also ^^

my thoughts

sin

[Bishop]

technically, you can get 100% tp in 1 minute if you sub sam, but I do believe meditae is a lvl 30 ability, meaning your thf would have to be at least lvl 60 to use it. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. So pre-lvl 60, nin would be significantly better for dual wield. Even after 60, some may argue that dual wield can provide some awesome stats boost, greed dagger or whatever and stuff like that.

[ClydeArrowny]

Due to the fast that thf is used to end renkei and they can only do so once a minute, extra TP gain is not really that great...viper bite with extra TP gives you poison duration up, whoohoo -_-...extra TP for dancing edge gives accuracy up, nice but not that good of a reason for having high amount of TP. Since I can not just do fuido+WS whenever due to renkei, I always have 100% or more TP by the time the other melee are ready as thf/nin.

[Bishop]

By the time you're 60, not only do you get dancing, you get meditae, again correct me if I'm wrong, meaning you get uber accuracy up with 300% tp. The only reason people even buy acc up items at that lvl is so dancing has a higher chance of landing all 5 hits. 300% tp is a pretty big deal imo since the accuracy up with that amount of tp stacked with your acc up items could easily land 3 or 4 hits. A dancing that only lands like 2 hits is probably weaker than VB, so acc up items are a must at that point and having 300% tp during renkei won't hurt either, which is what meditate would be used for at that lvl.

Btw, isn't zandria thf/sam?

[ClydeArrowny]

Zand is a thf/sam who looks up to my thf/nin-ness ;p As elvaan thf due to my accuracy lv in battle I estimate my dancing should hit 3-4 times as it is unless it lowers my accuracy. The 1st hit is gauranteed, so you only have to worry about the remaining 4. The reason to have accuracy up items is to hit more to vuild TP at a decent rate while the reason to have dex and agi up items is to raise fuido dmg. Nin sub raises overall performance along with raise fuido dmg. The extra acc wouldnt be that great IMO.

[Dnarris]

I suppose choosing between Nin and Sam really depends on your comfort level on your abilitly to amass TP in the appropriate amount of time. As I see it, I tend to have 100+ tp very quickly with dual wield, especially with dagger since dagger is a bit more accurate than swords due to the fact that we can have more skill per level in dagger. Ninjustu also may seem limited, but I have found pretty good use in it. I can usually pull out an extra 20-50 damage per reneki (lvl 1 and 2) and another 20-50 damage out on the MB by using various Ninjustu that lower elemental resistances corresponding to the element of the reneki that we are using. Plus, the use of ustesmi has saved me more than once, on pulls gone bad, or a unexpected aggresive spawn. Seems to me however, playing sam as a sub and waiting all the way to level 60 to get meditate, doesn't seem worth the wait.

[The Heretic]

At the moment, I dont have enough TP with dagger (or H2H, for that matter) to perform sneak with a WS constantly (now that I think about it, maybe every 2nd SA). I dont see how that can change by simply having 2 weapons and double (approx) the delay. I also dont see how this will change as I grow stronger, if I want to be doing a Fuidama pretty much every minute.

BTW Your not "waiting" will lvl 60, you still get TP store (more TP, as I recall) at lvl 10 or so...

[ClydeArrowny]

I'm a lv57 >ELVAAN< thf/nin and my renkei partner never has to wait on me for TP....just take my word for it that you get TP fast enough as to not make your renkei partner wait

[sinfox]

i will.. admit to not yet being of level where i may use dancing edge weaponskill ... however.. i was under the impression that the sneak+trick will only apply to first hit of said weaponskill... first hit being all that will matter in terms of thief..

.. any other hit would be extra bonus damage, which will not be counted on fuidama hit.. or more to point, extra bonus tp, which.. while nice.. is not imperative to hitting 100% for next fuidama.. i list reasons why reasonably well equipped thief should have little issue finding 100% in 1:00 in first reply to this thread.

i just see little reason for samurai.. when ninja is so much more flexable..

perhaps thf/sam would wish to correct me on above points?.. as most is logic from my understanding of how game works

sin

[redhotfanboy]

Is there even any other subjob to think about for thf??? I was looking at ranger but after reading the info page im not to excited for that job. Becuase i cant play 20 hours a day i am just getting one job up high for now not every job up to 75 like some players so i was wondering about thf subs. I see lots of thf/nin or nin/thf but not so many sams. I want to be a good character but not like everyone else if there is another combo it would be great

[Korendil]

THF/WAR is actually very decent... the pros and cons have been stated quite well in other threads. I myself will be staying with this combo just because I am too lazy to spend millions of gil leveling ninja for whatever minor effectiveness boosts I may get from that subjob.

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by ClydeArrowny
Zand is a thf/sam who looks up to my thf/nin-ness ;p As elvaan thf due to my accuracy lv in battle I estimate my dancing should hit 3-4 times as it is unless it lowers my accuracy. The 1st hit is gauranteed, so you only have to worry about the remaining 4. The reason to have accuracy up items is to hit more to vuild TP at a decent rate while the reason to have dex and agi up items is to raise fuido dmg. Nin sub raises overall performance along with raise fuido dmg. The extra acc wouldnt be that great IMO.

I'll kick your ass in PvP Calin! Cept you gotta wait till end of summer ;; Can't during school ha! And to the topic creator, gotta love those sunjobs!

Anywho, TP Concentration you will get at level 60 for a sub of Samurai. It can help and it can't. You will always be ready for Renkei and may be able to do 1 before renkei starts. This will also apply to PvP. It would have a good advantage to do 2-3 WS's on your opponent. TP Concen's TP charge would be halved remember becuase of the subbage (yes..fake word). Get a +atk shield or something good for your shield if you sub this.

Ninja sub is also good becuase of a few stat boosts. You also get blink for pulling and due wielding two daggers (status = must). There really isn't any good sub abilities from sub ninja becuase..well Ninja doesn't have abilities ha! But it's still better than most jobs out there.

Warrior is okay, get double attack..which is alright and a few others and please god dont say you get back up taunt. If your puller/tanks/mages are doing they job then the THF shouldn't have to taunt to save the party. THF really shouldn't get hit in a party inless a range attack comes.

I wont go into Dark Knight...you will end up killing yourself and the person who's in front of you.

And dont start with other sub jobs such as BRD (true yes..) and drg.

so I whipped out the stats calculator and took it for a test drive.

Dont use the Stat calculator...it's off. Based on your equipment your using ....it's off. Level Ninja, Samurai, DRK, or Ranger and see for yourself.

Conclusion: In the end, Samurai is better if you want to do two or more Weapon Skills in one fight but! You have to be level 58~ or above for it to be fun or even interesting. Ninja is your better choice of sub if not Samurai becuase it's more usefull. Even though you DONT have to use Ninjitsu, you can for pulling purposes or soloing. I've been leveling Samurai still till 30 to sub for Thief at 60 if I even want to go that far. But if you really dont like one sub you should always have a back up

[Korendil]

The other thing about /WAR is Berserk, and eventually a passive ATK bonus and possibly Warcry too. It isn't /just/ double attack and a backup provoke.