Uncooperative parties (as far as SA/TA are concerned)

[fenrirknight]

I swear, sometimes it seems like people have no clue what a thief does in combat, even upwards of lvl 25. Most parties I can eventually figure out how to pull my sneak attacks off with, but sometimes I'll get a party that doesn't let me pull (using a WAR with provoke instead), the mages are collecting aggro all the time or the WAR is never provoking, or always moving, etc etc.

So how do you get people to understand when you first join a party how it should go? I mean it always takes some coordination to get this. I myself use a Macro for sneak attack that waits 60 seconds (20 at a time) and at the end says "/p <<Sneak Attack Ready>> ~WAITING FOR PROVOKE~". I think this helps sometimes, but still there are some warriors who I guess never see it, even though it pops up every minute or two.

Anyways, just share your experiences with this and maybe what you do when you join a party that doesn't seem to cooperate.

[Riskimew]

I've never had that much of a problem with SA in groups, except for really uncoordinated ones. But those have to be absolutely terrible - like, where between the time it takes me to use sneak attack and the time it takes me to strike, things consistently foul up, because some mage overnukes, etc. One thing that I will say I have some trouble getting taken care of is SA+TA+WS combos - getting a tank who's never done SAs before to stand directly, and I mean directly behind the target, close enough so I can be within striking range.. some groups just don't have the patience. And I only want to micromanage people so much, especially in a pick up group - I know people should really learn how to use thieves effectively, but nagging past 3 requests and it looks bad.

I will say though, I don't bother pulling. Ever. The one time a group asked me to pull, I laughed. What's the point? Working in a single early SA?

[KambuL]

25 thf/mnk here. Ive pretty much seen the worst of it. Ive had some really bad experiences in Qufim.

Mages over nuking, tanks moving around, other melee's standing behind the mob instead of infront (something that really helps if tank loses aggro).

The worst part is, I like to Boost to double my attack power (sub monk) charged with one sneak. After I hit that, I like to sneak with a weapon skill (combo) or maybe even stack the combo with the boost/sneak. Its complicated to say the least, and takes a bit of preparation. If you work hard to get the attack set just right and somebody does something stupid to ruin it, it can get really frustrating.

I dont know, there are tons of things that can go wrong due to the very nature of a thf's attack role in the group. But it really isnt that hard to get along with a thf if you have any brains.

Tips for grouping with THF, if you are any other class.

-Melee please try to stand infront of the mob. Incase you steal aggro from the tank, the mob will still be facing you, thus not moving around and making the thf miss a huge attack.

-Mages dont nuke between the sneak attack and the strike. It really isnt that hard.

- PROVOKE PROVOKE PROVOKE.

- If you are pulling for the group, run all the way to your party. Dont stop at the thf... they are just waiting infront to get behind the mob.

Probably the worst part is when I actually go past the line and try to say something. "Please stand infront of the mob" "Please provoke". They think im an asshole or something.

[Roldarin]

It should be easy to tell if a group is going to listen to you or not.

I got into a group with 2 vokers. I asked if both of them knew how TA worked, they said yes. The secondary tank would provoke first, the main tank would be my trick buddy and then provoke after TA/SA. It just worked. The tanks knew to stand opposite each other as much as humanly possible. We chained mandragoras and goblin butchers for hours.

In my 20s it was hard to find people to do the right thing. But I dealt with it. I'd make some suggestions and if they didn't work I'd either leave if the exp was really crappy or just do my best and get the regular if a little bit slow exp. Not everyone understands efficient grouping. And for some reason they aren't really inclinded to.

Roldarin

[ichnob]

agrees with KambuL

I've had to deal with asking the tanks to Provoke and not run around the monster all the time while fighting. It does get annoying, but most of the time they see the light. I'd like my SA to work all the time (minus the stray aggro onto the mage), but the most annoying part about it is waiting for the tank to provoke off the puller. Most of the time, they just get the hate of me/puller by attacking it, and I still have to wait a while before I can start attacking. Wasting a SA hurts sometimes.

[Bishop]

I just join JP parties. They know how fuidama works, and they know very well that a thf's duty is to pull it off with near perfection. A thf that can't fuidama is like a mage that only goes melee.

[Deodorant]

When I played my thf from 30-50 (switched to rdm a month ago) I must say that I never had that problem, mainly because the only people my level were either japanese, or the more 'hardcore' levelers/beta testers who are serious about playing and know what they're doing.

Now that my rdm is approaching 40 I have to say that I'm amazed by the number of people this level who have no clue how to play the game. I guess a lot of the NA newbies are getting higher level, but for whatever reason their playing skill is still not much better than the valkurm level.