i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

[Nightmare]

was wonderin if i used red mage as a sub if i would b a decent one?????

plz give me ideas and opinions

[Omni]

Re: i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

it works, you can get by with it but, next to all parties look for whm sub.

[Tirrock]

Re: i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

I think I had a good thing going with my last speech about /RDM vs /WHM... So I'll beat that horse again. Here we go!

Often times SMN are asked to be a healer in a party. Healing isn't just casting cures. It's removing negative status spells on your allies as well. A SMN/RDM can only do half of the job needed for healing in most parties. You'll occasionally run into situations where you don't need status removal spells, in which case I feel that the extra MP from /WHM sub isn't that important, and you can get by with /RDM without problems in those parties.

Here's a list of places I've been where SMN/RDM would honestly function almost as well as /WHM. (I'm bored...downloading patch...)
Beetles in altepa (level 31-33).
Beetles/bats in garliage (30's).
Beetles in Quicksands (mid/high 40's).
Beetles/bats in the basement of garliage (late 40's/level 50ish).
*Sahagin/Pugils in sea serpent grotto - past mythril door (late 40's/early 50's). At least I think...I haven't been down to SSG forever, and I don't remember if there are WHM sahagin or not...I'm pretty sure there aren't in that part though.
*Crabs in kuftal (low 50's).
Beetles in insanely hidden area of torami (spelling error, most likely) canal (early 50s).
Bats in king rampere's tomb, basement (mid 50's).
*Crabs in boyahda (mid 50's).
*Crabs/pugils in cape terrigan (high 50's).
**Raptors/Giant Birds in valley of sorrows (high 50's/low 60's).

* = /WHM for barwatera would cut down damage taken from their AoE (or in the case of sahagin, single target) moves.
** = /WHM would help reduce the damage taken by party byraptor's flame breath by using barfira.

Notice the cut-off level? Sort of just....stops after early 60's. WHM get erase at level 32. So after level 64, a SMN/WHM can remove all those annoying debuffs that you could do nothing about before.

Erase is great for removing evasion down on ninjas, STR down on melees, even removing slow if you don't have a RDM (or WHM) in the group. After erase, I can only thing of one time where /RDM would be almost as good as /WHM is on decorative weapons in sky, level 70+. But with sky...you never know which camp will be taken or not, and there are other things around that could use erase or other status removal spells on.

[Brayden]

Re: i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

/sigh If you look @ the stickied threads, you will see that tazirai has an indepth post on his opinion and experince as smn/rdm. Reading it might give you valuable insights

[Nightmare]

Re: i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

i kno thats why i looked into it in the first place. I was gonna b a taru but read that and said mayb bwing elvann would work for that

[Tirrock]

Re: i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

It honestly doesn't matter that much what race you are at higher levels.

However... I would not suggest male elvaan SMN. Only for them having the worst summoning animation ever. >_>

[Bahamut UK]

Re: i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

i use RDM / SMN, great combo only if you know how to use it right.

[SharMarali]

Re: i wanna b an elvann SMN and.....

OK, the subject of whether RDM SJ works for a SMN is actually a pretty heated topic in this forum. There are a wide variety of opinions amongst SMNs. My honest opinion is that /WHM, in a PT situation, is almost as important for a SMN as /WAR is for a PLD. To me, there are no real BENEFITS to being /RDM, while /WHM offers a LOT.

/RDM gets (forgive me if the levels are a little off, I didn't cross-reference this):
Phalanx at level 64 - Not an asset to the party. Something I'd refer to as a selfish reason for wanting to use /RDM. Plus, if you have Diabolos, you have phalanx way before then anyway, and the kind that affects the entire PT.
Dispel at level 66 - You get it really, really, really late, and it's EXTREMELY rare to see a PT in the mid 60's or later without a RDM or BRD that can dispel anyway. Plus, if you have Fenrir, you have dispel way before then anyway, but you'll never really use it since it's AoE (and since you have to use your blood pact to use it).
Enchant series - Useless for a SMN really, unless you want to hurt the PT further by meleeing and giving the monster more TP so you can do very tiny amounts of damage
Low level elemental spells - These are actually not bad to have at EARLY levels, because you can MB without having to waste your BP. After level 30 or so, hang it up. Your spells won't do jack for damage, especially since your elemental skill is halved. Main job RDMs rarely nuke at high levels, except for solo situations. Leave that for BLMs.

/WHM gets:
Curega at 32, curegaII at um.. I forget.. Higher.
Status ailment cures - SMN/WHM can eventually use every status ailment cure that a WHM can use EXCEPT for stonea. One can argue "but I have those with spring water!" Yes, you do. But it's HORRIBLY inconvienient, not to mention dangerous, for your PT to have to wait 60 seconds for your blood pact timer to recharge while they're all paralyzed and your tanks are silenced because of a torama. And you'd rather be using your BPs for supporting your PT in some other way anyway.
Divine seal at 30 - Being able to chuck out a divine seal curega occassionally in between fights is very handy. Since we never get CureIV regardless of which SJ we use, it's useful at times to be able to divine seal cureIII the tank, too.
Stoneskin and blink for yourself much, much sooner - Yes, I said earlier that self-phalanx is a selfish reason to want to use /RDM. I don't think THIS is a matter of selfishness though. Having stoneskin up will get you 1-2 free hits if you accidentally pull hate and save your PT from a whole lot of downtime if you die. As /RDM, you don't get this incredibly useful spell until level 68 (I think). As /WHM you get it a whole heck of a lot sooner. Yes, you have Earthen Ward. It's nice to be able to cast stoneskin on yourself without putting so much planning into it though.

If you want to try out /RDM, go for it. I firmly believe that EVERY summoner, regardless of what SJ they choose to use the majority of the time, NEEDS to have /WHM available though.