Advice with sam/rng

[luisa]

I know theres alot of threads about sam/rng but this one is a lil diff. I have been using sam/rng since lvl 57 and now im 61, have almost mastered the issue of staying alive by using side winder when mog is at half health, thats when i go crazzy and dish out as many sidewinders as i can, wich usually works, and havent died alot since i hit 60, have died about 3 times since i hit 60 but thats cause of people now knowing how to do their jobs, any ways i have a question, i have read about how str is the main modifier in most cases on ws, and i heard about a secondary modifier, my question is, to do bigger dmg with sidewinder,is str the main modifier or is it he agi? well heres what i have for gear, maybe you guys have any sudggestions on it.


head: i forgot what my head piece is called but it gives me str+3 and +3 agil.
Body: the jarida body piece with rng acc n att +5
legs: forgot the name of my pants but is from the same set as of my head with str+3 and agil +3.
feet: is from the akinji set with rng acc+3.
back: the mantle that gives att and rng att+15
hands: o.kote att+20
neck: spectacles rng acc + acc 7(might be 9 dont remember)
rings: str+3 rings
earrings: the ones with rng acc+2 and the lvl 30 earrings with laten affect of rng acc+3---(these become active since i have rng sub)
katana: lvl 60 katana with att n acc+
belt: some new belt that has acc n rng acc +5
bow: the bow that has 18 rng att with 2 rng acc
amo: i use the arrows that has rng acc + 15 and some other arrows that have rng acc +5
food: squid sushi and if i run out i use dorado.

Sorry for not knowing the exact names for them usually dont look at the names just the stats, but what u guys think? Saw a 63 rng hitting a puk for over 700 and i notice i normally can do from 5-670 and the only times i reachd 700 to 800 was with brd castting stuff on me and so i was wondering if theres anything wrong with my gear or if theres any sudgestions im up for it (any gear or ways to increase dmg sudgestions).

One more thing, i really dont miss my reg rng att but out of 20 ws try i hit about 13-15 of them.

[Malacite]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

AGI has a higher percentage in the calculation (30% vs 12% STR) but STR still factors in more heavily as it adds to your ranged attack and is calculated against the mob's VIT rating.

That said, pile on the STR.

[Amele]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

to improve your ws accuracy with Sidewinder, try waiting for more TP before firing (say, 50% more) so if you normally fire at 100%, go at 150% - go at 175-200% if you normally fire at 150% etc.

I'm sure a post on the ranger forums about slug/winder will give more information.

[Cometgreen]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Even at that lvl, Rangers pile on as much accuracy as possible to make sure Slugwinder lands, so unless you do use GKatana WS at times, substitute your STR rings with Scorpion +1. Rangers generally don't pile up on strength until after lvl 70 when we get our final Accuracy Bonus trait, so a 61 SAM/RNG probably shouldn't use STR when +Racc is available.

[Zempten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

On this topic, do you guys know how far you have to stand for the full effects? I think it was around 4? but wiki said something about standing 7 away, but then they mentioned something about that was calculated pre RNG un-nerf so I'm all confused.

here is the link...

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Distance

It's all the way at the bottom

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Yeah, I'd actually advise against the STR rings, soooo many SAM/RNGs i've seen don't succeed with the combo because they:

(1) lack of the best accuracy options, rings are the cheapest and biggest boost of any slot you can get.

(2) they also use Scorpion arrows. The beauty of SAM/RNG is wasted on the cheapness and low damage of these arrows. Get the Demon Arrows and grab Kabura when the time comes, you're not going to be burning arrows like a RNG with Meditate, Store TP and Soboro on your side.

If you must have scorpion arrows, use them for Barrage and save Demon/Kabura for Sidewinder.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

On the topic of optimal range, I have read that it is just outside maximum melee distance now. Personally as SAM/RNG I just spam Sidewinder at melee range. With Sharpshot up, it might be worth moving back as far as 10.0 for maximum damage. However, I was always tanking, so I could only take advantage of maximum damage while pulling.

(I really should check when the original posts in these threads were made before writing a big response.)

I enjoyed playing SAM/RNG from Lv60 to Lv72 as well. Sushi is definately a must. I would suggest going all out ranged accuracy gear during Barrage and Sidewinder. You should build more for ATK while building TP since you now get 1DEX=1ACC and 22ACC from RNG SJ.

Personally I used a Partisan+1 polearm since it gives you significantly greater DoT than a Great Katana while fighting piercing weak enemies. At Lv70, you may want to consider changing over to using an Engetsuto polearm instead of a bow. I have both Shigeto Bow and Engetsuto builds, and I find that my polearm build produces equal or greater damage after the 1DEX=1ACC and 1STR=1ATK changes. I'm now eating meat, which has greatly raised my DoT without sacrificing WS DMG.

Personally I preferred to play in a small party of 2 or 3 when leveling SAM/RNG. SAM/RNG, RDM/WHM, and THF/NIN make an awesome party for killing Marsh Murre in Caedarva Mire at Lv60-63, Puk in Wajaom Woodlands at Lv63-67, Tragopan in Bibiki Bay at Lv67-70, and Darters in Boyahda Tree at Lv70-74. You will find it incredibly fun to spam the crap out of Sidewinder while tanking with Seigan+Third Eye.

FYI: When fighting in smaller parties and using Sushi, my Sidewinder accuracy was about 85-90% at ~110TP. I remember Sidewinder damage being in the mid 600s until I got Hachiman gear, Schiltron Spear, and Shigeto Bow. With the better gear, I was getting into the low 800s.

Using Demon arrows for Sidewinder and Scorpion Arrows for pulling and Barrage will make this work better. Also your thief can help out with Acid bolts. Have your RDM cast Paralyze, Slow, and Dia II. The RDM shoud only cast Cure IV and rest while you don't need healing. This can also be done with a NIN or PUP instead of THF as long as your RDM uses Crow gear to lower their enmity. I also had success with DRG against Puk, but they will take a little too much damage against enemies that they cannot intimidate.

[Zempten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Well I was planning on using Soboro for TP gain and spam Sidewinder. I have Polearm at lvl 142 atm so maybe I'll skill that up first. Although I'm sure that my DMG with soboro will be poor with Sushi. I usually use meat to justify using Soboro. I have the same gear as the OP . . . .

Main: Soboro
Sub: Mythril Grip +1 (maybe going to use Polearm Grip)
Ranged: War Bow +1
Ammo: Demon Arrows
Head: Siphia
Neck: Spectacles
Ear1: Vision Earring
Ear2: Beater's Earring
Body: Jardiah Peti
Hands: Jardiah
ring1: Scorp. Ring +1
ring2: Scorp Ring +1
back: Jaeguar
waist: Precise Belt
legs: Jardiah
feet: Jardiah

was that your same setup Ryo?

[Malacite]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Soboro is required for SAM/RNG, as is sushi.

We only get a C+ rating, which means 230 skill at level 75. Every ounce of ranged accuracy helps.

Also, Soboro is a very good weapon, period. Only time I wouldn't use it is on major bosses that you don't want to feed TP to and when subbing THF.

[Amele]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

personally I prefer either a hagun or a D:80 weapon for most general purpose use. (kumokirimaru looks sexy but I haven't gotten one yet ; ; )

soboro is nice and all but the tp-gain rates do increase the amount of mp your mages have to use, even in simple stuff like merits.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Your RNG ACC gear looks top notch. I had 12 less RNG ACC pre-level 70, so I think you should be alright with enemies up to 8 levels above you while eating sushi. Also I do not have a Soboro since I have less playtime than forum time these days. The annoying thing about going SAM/RNG is fighting Colibri. With Jaeger Mantle and Deadeye Gloves, I don't see why you wouldn't try using meat in this situation.

My only experience in a full 6 man xp party as SAM/RNG while eating sushi was fighting Imps at Lv71. It really sucked for me though because my polearm occasionally hit for 0 DMG. My Sidewinder still did about 500 DMG when it hit. You should not have this problem with Soboro and loading on STR/ATK while TPing.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

I definitely encourage people experimenting with SAM. It is fun having four good weapons (Shigeto Bow, Engetsuto, Soboro, and Hagun) to choose from depending on what you want to go do and how much money you want to waist doing it.

I'm sadly unable to find good uses for SAM/RNG after the 2h updates. Tuesday I went back to where I used to XP in Boyahda Tree fighting Darters (Lv75-78) and Steelshells (Lv73-76). It was just my two characters: Nonomii (73RDM/WHM) and Ryoii (73SAM/WAR).

I used to come as SAM/RNG, and I would use Sole Sushi, Shigeto Bow, and Schiltron Spear. I was hitting Sidewinders for 800 DMG with 90% accuracy, but my polearm damage wasn't great. I could just barely clear the room of Darters before they respawned.

This time I used SAM/WAR with Carbonara and Engetsuto. I was averaging 800 DMG (some over 1k) on weapon skills, but I was able to use Penta Thrust again after just 4 hits. Also my per hit polearm damage was double what it used to be, and I was able to clear the whole room of Darters and kill 3 Steelshells before they respawned. It was nice not having to use three different gear sets for TP, Sidewinder, and Barrage/Pulling. Also I don't miss the ammo cost one bit.

My duo pulled off 6k xp in a little under an hour (1k from ring). I'm working on getting more damage out of polearm than great katana, but I have a feeling I'll need more accuracy to make it work in merit parties. I also need to test the fTP modifiers for great katana before I count it out. I find it hard to believe great katana would do more damage against piercing weak enemies, but I could be wrong. The true test will come when I can compare Engetsuto to Soboro or Hagun against Greater Colibri. Unfortunately that could be several weeks to a month or more from now.

[Zempten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Well if SAM/RNG can achieve the same as SAM/WAR in terms of DMG, I'd like the variety of being allowed to do either or. My LS currently has 2 other SAMs around my lvl and I'm waiting to PT with them so I can parse how things go. One has Soboro and the other one doesn't so it'll be very interesting.

[Zempten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Well I messed with Sidewinder in a PT today on Puks. I'm not sure if I should be happy or sad. I parsed 1% higher then the WAR in our PT who was 2 lvls higher then me and using a GA.

I guess what irks me the most is that I miss 2 sidewinders in a row at 130-150% TP and standing around 6 to 7 distance away from mob. Sometimes I land 3 in a row (love soboro proc with Meditate). It just seems so random compared to when using a GK's WS. Oh and I avoided using WS during Flash/Zephyr Mantle, but when I do do it on accident I don't take it into account.

Is there anyway to make it more consistant? Am I doing something wrong? I LOVE SAM/RNG so much atm it's not even funny. I guess it's because it's refreshing from doing SAM/WAR for 60 lvls. So is there anything else I should do besides meritting Archery?

[Zempten]

Re: Advice with sam/rng

Oh here are some SS of how I was doing. Is this good? Over in KI they show SS of some guys doing like 1k. I couldn't come even close to 1k.

Summary of my Sidewinders and a few Barrages:


Self SC with Sidewinder:


Sidewinder Barrage Sidewinder:


Sidewinder Barrage Sidewinder #2:


Seems like self SC wasn't worth it and that just using Sidewinder to Sidewinder would be best imo.

I think SAM/RNG might equal SAM/WAR as I was parsing 1% higher then the 63 WAR in our PT. I was doing 31% and he was doing 30%. I would definitely do better if I didn't have to end up tanking for 1/2 the battles. During those times I used Yukikaze since I wasn't in an ideal range to shoot off sidewinders.

P.S: I'm sorry. I don't know how to make the images look more clear. I saved them as jpegs. If someone could let me know how to make them bigger I'll definitely do it so you can have a better time reading them without straining your eyes.