STR vs. Attack: Which WS uses which?

[Kester]

I know that some WS's are based on attack power and some are based on the amount of STR you have, but which one of the GK skills use which?

I ask this because I'd like to use equip macros to switch out to the type the skill is based on, but is this not needed and am I thinking of it all wrong?

I know, after 73 levels you think I'd know..

[John Doe III]

I'd like to know to So bump.

[CarbonFibre]

Your last 3 weapon skills are all STR 75% as the modifier. I don't know how much attack would help, but the better question is probably what gear pieces you're looking at for a comparison to figure out which would be better for you.

[Klades]

No weaponskill uses Attack as a modifier in the damage formula for the WS itself. There's an impact, yes, but it's not quite the same.

All Great Katana weaponskills use only STR as a modifier. The last three use 75% of your STR in the formula, and the ones before use a smaller percentage. Note that I'm not including Kaiten as nobody knows a thing about it yet, so "last three" means Yukikaze, Gekko, and Kasha.

As a /thf, you probably want to switch as much gear as possible to +STR gear on your sneak attack macro to max out your STR, as your Attack has basically no impact because of the ensured critical hit.
You'll probably want to just leave your normal gear on when you use a weaponskill with /war, possibly swapping Hachiman in for a couple pieces for the +WS Acc. Attack is a factor here because you aren't gauranteed to land a critical hit.


Cliff's notes: Macro in STR for SA+WS on /thf. Don't for /war.

[Asurasan]

Just poking this thread to say Klades has it pretty much nailed.

Str with /thf

War with acc/att/str

[cloudedge]

um... this is sorta related to the str vs atk question...
so as a bard, should I keep minuet on the sam? or etude that adds strength?

Minuet IV at my lvl gives rought 50-60 atk and etude gives +10 str.

(i ask this bc i perma with a sam... and SC+MB seems to be our main source of damage)

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by cloudedge
um... this is sorta related to the str vs atk question...
so as a bard, should I keep minuet on the sam? or etude that adds strength?

Minuet IV at my lvl gives rought 50-60 atk and etude gives +10 str.

(i ask this bc i perma with a sam... and SC+MB seems to be our main source of damage)

Probably just attack normally and STR+ etude before the skillchain I'd say.

[cloudedge]

Originally posted by CarbonFibre
Probably just attack normally and STR+ etude before the skillchain I'd say.

... consider i have to land threnody before the sc for MB.. i don't think i can squize in 6 sec to land the etude on the sam before the sc... so should i just stick with Minuet then?

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by cloudedge
... consider i have to land threnody before the sc for MB.. i don't think i can squize in 6 sec to land the etude on the sam before the sc... so should i just stick with Minuet then?

Do threnodies' power decrease over time like an etude does?
Have you had trouble squeezing it in after trying or are you just guessing that it probably won't work?
I don't feel like I'm in a position to suggest one over the other. I'm guessing minuet would be better, but other people may have to chime in here.

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by CarbonFibre
Do threnodies' power decrease over time like an etude does?
Have you had trouble squeezing it in after trying or are you just guessing that it probably won't work?
I don't feel like I'm in a position to suggest one over the other. I'm guessing minuet would be better, but other people may have to chime in here.

Nope only Etudes decrease over time. Threnodies maintain same potency until they fully wear.

[cloudedge]

Originally posted by Nodachi
Nope only Etudes decrease over time. Threnodies maintain same potency until they fully wear.

Just curious.. how do u know about this? I would suppose it's hard to test if it gradually wears off or it maintain potency all thru...

anyhow... the reason I prefer to land threnody right before SC is that threnody tend to last much shorter than elegy.. and the time the last vary a lot.. and in case it wears during SC if i land it early... i usually try to land it during SC.

A typical battle is like this:

8sec (Minuet III/Madrigal) + 8 Sec (Minuet IV) + 2 Sec (Threnody) + 8 Sec (Ballad I) + 8 Sec (Ballad II) + 2-4 Sec (1-2 Finale) = 36-38sec... given it take 2 sec to run around... just the basic songs takes up 40sec of the battle and since we chain a lot of VT-IT... the battle really doesn't last all that long... squeezing in another etude would means starting to pull later (I'm the puller too since i can leave camp before the mob is dead and start pulling...)

So in cases like this i can really only choose between the etude or the Minuet III... how much damage would 10+ strenght do? and how much 50+ atk? (I'm sorry i have never play melee before and i filter out all pt damage.. so i don't have much clue how effective Minuet is v.s etude)

Note: @66, the sam say he's hitting max 95/ swing with double minuet.. is that a good number? (I think he mentioned that he his 70-90 with just 1 minuet... )

Also, on the side note... how much acc do u sam need.. i was pting with 2 sam yesterday, fighting VT- weak IT with no madrigal and I almost don't see any misses at all... We even fought thur an IT++ (undead/toad mob) w/o madrigal and there's no missing problem either...

The sam equips are:
Sam 1: Haub + 1 sniper + Sole Sushi
Sam 2: Scrop Harness + 2 sniper + Sole Sushi (later on he switch to rice ball and misses a lot even on VT... /sigh)

So how much acc is enuff that I can drop Madrigal for sam??

[Nodachi]

Yeah i completley agree in casting before or during SC for those same reasons. But the description when square released them doesn't mention any sort of potency decrease over time, but when they altered the etudes they mentioned it and you can visably see the stats decrease.

"So in cases like this i can really only choose between the etude or the Minuet III... how much damage would 10+ strenght do? and how much 50+ atk? (I'm sorry i have never play melee before and i filter out all pt damage.. so i don't have much clue how effective Minuet is v.s etude)"

10 STR alone from equipments or base stat adds a tremendous amount more to one's average high end damage on a WS, however when testing WS damage with etudes on, i don't seem to notice an increase in my peak damage, but just i average my usual high end damage more often with etudes on. This could vary per level/mob, i was only testing on EPs in Sea Serpent's Grotto so i can't really say with more difficult mobs.

[Enichi]

seems like the etudes just help you hit max damage for ws more often like you mention nodachi..... what actually helps increase the damage of the ws is TP..... more TP you have, more damage you're able to do on ws..... i personally like minuet when attacking normally, and when doing a ws.... would like the etudes but not required...... most people wont notice if they had it or didnt have it..... if you can, throw the etude on the finisher of the sc, else its no biggy if they get it or not.i guess it would really depending on how long the fight is going to last..... if you're expecting a short fight, usually high damage sc at start followed by gaIII or IV spells..... might just used the etudes on the melees....... minuet in the long run will help.... etude if you're expecting a short fight........ course there's always situation where your pt is on the move to keep the exp chain alive, like a mnk pt.... with the ability to get chain 42+.... if this is the case... go with minuet, and mandral or however that haste song is spelled. havent touched brd really.... so cant really say whats better.... but thats my opinion.

:sweat: :sweat:

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Klades
Cliff's notes: Macro in STR for SA+WS on /thf. Don't for /war.

STR + doesn't work all that great low levels...>.>;; 40ish anyways.

[Nodachi]

Originally posted by John Doe III
STR + doesn't work all that great low levels...>.>;; 40ish anyways.

You won't hardly notice the difference until you sub thief post 60 and at least have Yukikaze as a WS.