SAMs in BCNMs

[ZQM]

How useful are they in BCNM 40 fights? From what I gather after searching and reading several BCNM threads...

MNK - Most wanted because of hundred fists, allowing them to do tons of damage over a minute.

DRK - Second most wanted with most normal DPS, though their two hour doesn't help kill the monsters

DRG - Useless with no penta.

....but not one brought up SAM.

Though their damage isn't the best, would they be wanted for their 2hr? With meditate, they are able to do 4 weapon skills. They have two level 2 renkeis (distortion and fusion), along with 2 other level 1 renkeis (impaction and scission), which comes out to be 6 out of the 8 elements. So using two renkeis to whatever the BCNM is weak to followed by two magic burts, along with a Theordy from the BRD and if you have a NIN in the party, a correponding :NI ninjitsu, it would do massive damage. Or would this cause too much hate for either you or the blm? Or would the damage not even be enough to compare to a MNK or DRK?

Same goes for 50 and up, though then DRG's get penta and that's another class you have to compete with.

[davidmmmm9]

you shouldn't have to use your 2hour during the bcnm, if you do, you guys suck and shouldn't bother ; P
and it's helpful that when you enter the zone that has the burning circle you can use meditate to charge your tp. Once you enter the burning circle you won't lose your tp because it's considered the same zone. None of the jobs are very strong at level 40 but sam seems to be really good for bcnm 40. If you're taking hits you can still self renkei adding in some extra damage.
Most of the time in bcnm fight you don't really worry about mb or renkei, everyone just goes when they have the tp or save their tp for when one of the monsters uses a special.
but do whatever you like.

[kazthegun]

i don't have much experience PT'ing with SAMs, and have never done BCNM40 with them, but i have done BCNM40 giddeus over 20 times. SAMs, with all gear questions aside, will work about as well as MNKs, DRGs, DRKs, WARs, etc., but will be outclassed by RNGs. even though i'm DRK, i can't pull hate away from the BRD or RNG unless i use souleater, and then the RNG uses barrage and he's got the hate again.

2hr is a luxury, not a necessity, as are coordinated renkeis + MBs. nice to have, but should never be needed to win the battle, or your PT is not good enough.

when coordinating a BCNM40 giddeus PT, here's what i look for:

1. BRD
2. RDM or WHM
3. BLM or RNG
4. DRK, DRG, SAM, MNK, or WAR

[ZQM]

Originally posted by davidmmmm9
you shouldn't have to use your 2hour during the bcnm, if you do, you guys suck and shouldn't bother ; P

:sweat: I read that in a BCNM thread in one of the other sections.

And thanks. Glad to know they aren't completely pushed aside.

[fastcart]

I've done bcnm40 15 times (Giddeus). My record is 10-5 (if my memory serves correctly). 2 of the 4 losses are due to the dc of a healer or brd (which we should/would have won if they didn't dc). One is due to a missed stun (my first bcnm40). I forgot the others (I was tanking 3 times tho [don't say it, i know]).

Anyway, Sams do a decent job as a damage dealer as long as we aren't forced to fulfill the role of another job (pld or war for instance). Or at least I do. ^^ My one recommendation is the lvl 37 GKT (Hosodachi). You can get away with RSE or other armor mostly (aside from the standard dex giving accessories).

Using renkeis is helpful if you can do it. Using 2 hr shouldn't be neccessary unless something has gone wrong.

Just my personal experience.

[Cyrus99]

I was wondering about this, and how a SAM/RNG would be. You'd have access to everything the RNG has at this point except barrage. Your normal attacks would also do more damage than the RNG's knife attacks. I think that SAM/RNG would be possibly the best choice actually for a damage dealer. Finally, SAM's take damage MUCH better than a RNG.

[Kyoujin]

There isn't much difference in damage classes at 40. You should do as well as a monk or dark knight. It isn't until 50 that they start to pull ahead but even then you should be ok. At 50-60+ though, that's where the difference becomes painfully evident.

[leonarodfsilva]

Theb est grp is:

Paladin
Bard
Whm
Blm(or ranger)
Ranger
Ranger

[pagodaman02]

Title is SAMs in BCNMs, not the perfect BCNM party. I think that your party is great, but doesnt really apply to most reading this thread.

[riceburner4540]

i think the problem with sam/rng is their ranged accuracy. you'll miss too much...if you shell out a whole lot of money for gear (2 sniper rings, peacock charm, etc) then sam/rng would probably own

[Kyoujin]

i think the problem with sam/rng is their ranged accuracy. you'll miss too much...if you shell out a whole lot of money for gear (2 sniper rings, peacock charm, etc) then sam/rng would probably own

I doubt it. I have +28 normal accuracy and I miss with GK, a lot. Archery is a C+ skill for samurai and Sidewinder is a low accuracy WS. You'll have a hard time hitting with normal shots let alone Sidewinder.

[AtraposBLM]

yeah, getting lv110 for Sidewinder is a little hard.


/Rgn sucks. You can't use any of the ranged weapon skills (rgn only), and you'll miss a ton. A friend of mine uses a bow to pull just about always, and always has capped ranged skill (he's a sam/war, btw). He's hit 1 out of maybe 350-400 attempts. I highly doubt that even with serious investment you'll improve this over the 30-40% mark, and unless you could get it up to the 90% mark, I'd say it'd be a waste of your gil to shoot the arrows.

[DrSerpico]

About that perfect BCNM pt.

I did this bcnm last night, with kind of a subpar party... We lacked blm and rng, and the brd didn't have signa NOR the horn...
(And yes fidelity, you really need one OR the other, preferrably both, otherwise Horn > Signa. Second fight was lost due to firstly them breaking sleep to quick, and secondly lack of damage)

So lengthy fight without optimal sleeping abilities.. Now bear with me...

We did actually go 1-1 on this one, which is ok, being my first two runs. As I said before, they broke sleep to easily without horn or signa, but we managed to do the first one without any problem.

Blackie tried to flood me twice, no biggie, I just unlocked and ranged those. But the point is, with fishkabob I really had no problem either tanking or keeping aggro. When blackie was and we had 2-3 whites gone I could even chuck on berserk to speed the process.

Since taking all the hits isn't really the issue, my thoughts on an ideal bcnm pt would be whm, brd, rdm, sam, rng, rng. Might switch the whm for a blm if you're really confident, to further speed things.

As long as you have this pt, pproper mage placement (yes guys, you're not supposed to stand in a huge clump only. That's why sleep hurts. Otherwise just curaga wakeup-call. *sigh*) and a brd with at least horn (AND using songs for both mages and tanks, I really don't see how you could loose this bcnm unless you screw up somehow... Like forgetting to move away vs flood XD

This is my opinion, I stand by it, through fortune or flame.
If your's differ, feel free to voice it. I'll listen.

[Kanopus]

SAM in BC works great, although it looks like you guys are only focusing on BC40. I've never done BC40 in Sandoria, but I know SAM have no place in BC40 Palsborough (that's a BLM playground). The only BC40 SAM can do is Giddeus, and at Giddeus we excel. Meditate puts you way ahead of most damage dealers, and if you need to, SAM can tank pretty well @ lvl 40.

never tried BC50 so I dunno.

BC60 (Orc), SAM is great. In fact, you don't need your 2 hour, but if you choose to open it up on the BLM Orc, you can bring down 90% of his life in en-ka-en-ka-go chain. And, I am only a taru, so imagine what a elv SAM can do...

I hear BC60 (Sahagin) is also really good with SAM...

Kyoujin, I have no idea why you think SAM is inferior o_O don't you play one? If you do you should know that at 50-60+ we're still dealing out a good amount of damage... DRK/THF does pull ahead at 60, but we catch up easily again at 65. And from what I hear and see, Tachi: Kasha is very powerful, one of the only WS to ignore almost all armor~

Atrapos, Sidewinder is 175, yes it takes a bit of work, and I suggest going to Kuftal Tunnel and shooting the worms there to skill up. Two Sniper rings + merman's gorget + warbow+1 is enough to land 4/5 sidewinder shots. If I were slightly more rich and used the +5 acc arrows and got me some spectacles I could easily reach 90% accuracy with sidewinder. (200 TP sidewinder shots)

and /RNG, you DO get the Ranger WS.

[krycis]

BCNM40 @Giddeus: 2/2. That's all I have for experience in the fights, but I'll tell you this. I fulfilled the non-ranger slot very well. I was able to take hate away from the PLD and the RNG, unless the RNG popped Barrage. I could WS twice or three times (w/med) on the whites, though I ended up not using TP at all on the Black (saving to stun Flood) I could have easily WSed all over his ass.

Even taking agro from Blacky didn't hurt me too badly, even with weak DEF gear (Jujitsu Gi, Ryl Sqr Breeches, Cent Visor, Custom Gloves, Sniper and a Balance Ring, Leaping Boots, Beetle Earrings +1, and a Fang Necklace) I took only 20-40 damage a shot.

My first fight we lost the PLD early to Flood, half my fault, half the RDM's fault (didn't elem seal the silence), but we came back and won it. The second time we didn't lose anyone and I didn't even have to use Hobaku at all (Blacky tried a second flood in the first battle, but I stunned him). The second fight we finished in 10 minutes, which is fine in my book, we were in it for the loot not the best time.

Sadly the loot sucked, we got Utsusemi:Ni on the first fight and Phalanx on the second, but that was it. Split six ways, we'll all probably only get 40k. Had we gotten Erase, we'd been a bit better off. I guess 40k's not bad money for a half an hour's worth of work.

In summary, I would say that there is no reason not to take a SAM. They take better damage than a second RNG, which lets the WHM heal the BRD along with the secondary healer and save MP. Though slightly slower a fight, you'll have a good damage sponge and a fast stun WS available at anytime.