Dual Wielding With a Joyeuse

[icesharc]

I recently hit 75 and got my lovely joyeuse (yay) and am now working towards leveling up ninja subjob for my soloing adventures. I have the suppanomimi earing to lower dual wield delay and was considering purchasing the belt which also enhances dual wield effect. But my major question has to do with wielding another weapon with joyeues.

Here's my logic.... The more often joyeuse attacks the more often the double attack will kick in resulting in more damage. With haste on the joyeuse attacks pretty fast as it is and when i get multiple double attacks its almost nonstop, however when I dual weild with another sword of the same delay there is always a decently long delay between attacks regardless of if the joyeuse kicks in or not. So is it worth it???

It will probably come down to which weapon I pair joyeuse with. I'd buy the enhancing sword if it was more around the 4mil mark, but 10mil is just too much now. Guspiere (sp?) is nice, but overpriced in my opinion at 5-7mil. and I'm not willing to spend it on that (i'd get more use out of a scorpion harness). Verdun looks alright, but with parrying skill sooooo low (80-100 I'm not sure exactly but its not high) it's probably not worth it to spend that kind of money to buff a gimp leveled skill.

Then there's daggers, I had considered using a dagger main hand for evisceration, it sounds like it will do more damage than savage blade so maybe an option. If i were to pick a dagger it'd probabl;y be a misericorde (sp?) or a garuda's dagger. I have a hornetneedle in my safe but the low damage seems to make it not worth while.

Any advice will be welcomed.

[Lasareth]

In my opinion, dual wield is most effective for a pair of high delay weapons. This doesn't mean that actuall dual wielding is recommended, though. A lot of high level RDM who have NIN sub open tell me that they use a Genbu shield as well as a mainhand sword for fighting, as it brings about less delay time between casts and offers more protection overall. The real purpose for leveling nin to be effective is the protection from Utsusemi.

With only Joyeuse, you've got a 100% pure assurance that you'll be swinging with it every time and taking the chance on the double attack.

[plake]

I'm gonna use Joyeuse+Hornetneedle me thinks.

[Rogan]

my friend is 75 rdm/nin, and he uses joyeuse with hornetneedle it's pretty effective, and it's a lot of fun watching him solo summons, so far he's done shiva, garuda, titan and ramuh

[Habaut]

Yeah, I'm actually thinking about Hornet too. If you use Enspell, the extra hit from dagger + Enspell adds up pretty quick.

I guess it's all depends on what mob you are fighting. I thought the idea of having /NIN is that you don't get hit, so having Genbu Shield or not really doesn't make a difference. If you are fighting monk type which knock the shadow out fast, probably it's better to have Genbu Shield tho.

[truenoir]

Thanatos Baselard is also a nice dagger. Hornetneedle is a fine weapon for some things, but for Evisceration it's not that great. It's a physical attack, and the damage is tied to the damage of your dagger more than say, Cyclone is.
I'm not sure of the science behind it, but I did observe lower damage Eviscerations with that compared to Garuda's Dagger and Thanatos.

I think that Savage Blade is slightly weaker than Evisceration at 100% TP, but perhaps not to the point of worrying about. At 300% Savage Blade seems to win out.
TP gain with a Joyeuse is so fast even compared to a dagger. Since I only just got Savage Blade a couple days ago, and haven't farmed or anything with it yet, I really don't know how they compare over time.
Wouldn't be fair to do a true comparison until I cap dagger anyway, 242 on that, 250+5 sword.

Remember that Genbu's Shield does have +10 Evasion on it in addition to the 10% Physical Damage down. No less effective in preventing shadows from being used at all than a Scorpion Harness or Optical Hat.

Still haven't levelled NIN up for subbing either though...A Guispiere would be so sweet, but they're so rare. Verdun for looks too. Kraken club would work nice too :angel:

[sekaran]

I use Joyeuse + Genbu's Shield.. I seem to attack faster/same as if I'm dual wielding some.. That's why some RNG who use Kraken Club don't use anything in their offhand..

[little ninja]

i think duel weild only works when you have 2 weapons, when you put nothing in that second hand, you automatically only get the delay of the main hand weapon. otherwise youd see all us 65+ nin in af going with one weapon, swinging on a mob like we had a kraken club, with haste, an haste songs galore.

only reason why many rdm go /nin is for the blinks, an the idea of saving tons of mana for attacking purposes, instead of healing..

[truenoir]

i think duel weild only works when you have 2 weapons, when you put nothing in that second hand, you automatically only get the delay of the main hand weapon. otherwise youd see all us 65+ nin in af going with one weapon, swinging on a mob like we had a kraken club, with haste, an haste songs galore.

The point of not offhanding a weapon with a Joyeuse/Kraken/whatever though would be to allow for more swings of the weapon that may attack multiple times.
For sake of example, assume you have a sword that's the same delay and damage as the Joyeuse. It basically guarantees that every other hit you do won't double-attack.
For TP gain and damage, it'd serve the purpose better to maximize chances for a double attack, and so the "extra hit" could potentially slow you down.

So you're right, the main reason for /NIN is for blinks. The question though is whether or not the extra swing from an off-hand weapon is worth giving up that chance of a double-attack.
For a NIN main, you have Double Attack from /WAR anyway, so less of an issue

[Apple Pie]

To maximize the damage of your WS, use those with higher base damage and have Joyeuse as your sub weapon.

e.g.) Gold Sword +1 / Joyeuse, Tanathos Baselard / Joyeuse

To make the best use of en- spells (= increase the number of attacks) when you fight with avatars and elementals, Joyeuse + fasterst weapons.

e.g.) Joyeuse / Hornet Needle or Hornet Needle / Joyeuse (if you use Cyclone)

Single wielding Joyeuse is still strong and TP wise, there's almost no difference between SW Joyeuse and Joyeuse + Hornet even if you have Suppanomimi. So, it really depends on what mobs you're fighting with.