SA TA Spirits Within

[Akiro]

I was reading the Ranger thread " SA TA +Sidewinder {Yes,Please} and it got me thinking how much damage would a RDM do with this weapon skill at 300%TP and since we always have full HP except when we get hit from a AOE and i know its not practicle that a RDM sub THF for exp purposes but its just a mind boggler.

P.S a Video or a Estimate would be nice

[Apple Pie]

SA and TA don't work with non-physical WS like Spirits Within.

The damage of Spirits Within depends on our current HP when we shoot it. It does:

TP100%: 1/8 of our HP
TP200%: 3/16 of our HP
TP300%: 15/32 of our HP

In addition, damage bonus from SA (DEX) and TA (AGI) are only counted when our main job is THF. When we sub THF, we only get critical hit (x1.25) from SA.

[Ruic]

The only WS I know for sure that RDMs can get a bonus through SA is Fast Blade.

But, I've found that the best WS to use as a RDM, having access to all of them up to Spirits, are Seraph Blade and Red Lotus Blade at ~150% TP.

I tend to do only 110-130 damage with 100% TP, but 200-230 damage with 150% TP, and about 300-330 with 300% TP. But if I am saving up 300% TP somehow, then Spirits Within is going to hit for some 420 damage.

I'm not sure why, but when it comes to those two WS's, having 50% more TP doubles damage.

If I don't have access to Seraph or RLB, then Fast Blade is my best bet. This is usually the case, since /NIN gives me no additional sword WS. Fortunately, when /NIN, DW will give me "another hit" on my Fast Blade, so it can post some decent numbers on XP mobs. Extremely random between 100 and 300. Again, I've no clue what effect TP has on Fast Blade, I mostly use it at 100% TP.

Also btw, Spirits Within is entirely unable to be in a skillchain. You can even be in a party and have something like this. Person A uses Fast Blade! 1 second later you use spirits within. 2 seconds later Person B uses Burning Blade! = Liquefacation from Fast Blade to Burning Blade. It doesn't even seem to interrupt skillchains, or participate at all, which also greatly reduces it's usefulness. Sometimes I open up for the RNGs in my party with Fast Blade, so we get 400 or so points of skillchain damage from their sidewinders. Which in my opinion is worth a lot more than Spirits. :x

[Discordian]

Originally posted by Ruic

If I don't have access to Seraph or RLB, then Fast Blade is my best bet. This is usually the case, since /NIN gives me no additional sword WS. Fortunately, when /NIN, DW will give me "another hit" on my Fast Blade, so it can post some decent numbers on XP mobs. Extremely random between 100 and 300. Again, I've no clue what effect TP has on Fast Blade, I mostly use it at 100% TP.

Vorpal Blade and Fast Blade are both accuracy based. Fast Blade is a two hit attack and Vorpal is a 4 hit attack. Higher TP increases the accuracy of Fast Blade and increases the critical chance of Vorpal Blade.

[Zempten]

I think most would agree that Spirit's Within is good when your facing VT mobs, since it will always do the same amount or close to the same amount of damage.

{EDIT} In Solo situations

[imac2much]

Originally posted by Discordian
Vorpal Blade and Fast Blade are both accuracy based. Fast Blade is a two hit attack and Vorpal is a 4 hit attack. Higher TP increases the accuracy of Fast Blade and increases the critical chance of Vorpal Blade.

Hey Discord, I'm kind of confused by this statement. What do you mean it is "accuracy based"? If you mean, since it is a physical WS, the chance you will get all hits is determined by accuracy, that is true of all physical WS. And as you noted yourself, Vorpal Blade TP does not give added accuracy, only more chance of critical.

AFAIK, the only 1hsword WS that is accuracy based, in the sense that more TP gives more accuracy, is swift blade.

I could definitely be wrong here since I never use Fast Blade, and thus do not have much experience with it, but I believe Fast Blade TP gives more damage. I can test this when I get home; just use a subjob and weapon that doesn't have double attack, try Fast Blade at 100% TP, then at 300%, make sure the TP return is the same and compare the damage. You could very well be right, but most websites (both NA and JP) I've seen stated it as damage driven.

As for why Burning Blade and Seraph Blade are better for some RDM: these are elemental WS, meaning they follow a different damage equation than physical WS. Namely, they are based on your INT and MATK versus the target's INT, MDEF and elemental strength/weakness. They can be resisted by 90%, 50%, or hit for full 100% I believe, but never actually miss. As such, they also cannot be enhanced by SA.

[Discordian]

Originally posted by imac2much
Hey Discord, I'm kind of confused by this statement. What do you mean it is "accuracy based"? If you mean, since it is a physical WS, the chance you will get all hits is determined by accuracy, that is true of all physical WS. And as you noted yourself, Vorpal Blade TP does not give added accuracy, only more chance of critical.

I could definitely be wrong here since I never use Fast Blade, and thus do not have much experience with it, but I believe Fast Blade TP gives more damage. I can test this when I get home; just use a subjob and weapon that doesn't have double attack, try Fast Blade at 100% TP, then at 300%, make sure the TP return is the same and compare the damage. You could very well be right, but most websites (both NA and JP) I've seen stated it as damage driven.

Fast Blade just about the best rdm/thf weaponskill for farming when you have a decent Sword (in my case an Enhancing Sword) since it can pump out decent damage per swing and still get a decent drop with /thf compaired with other WS such as Burning Blade. Fast Blade is a two hit attack since before patch it would give 6% or 12% TP based on how many hits connected (don't we miss those days...) with a damage increase of str and dex. I'm fairly certain that a higher TP mark will give more accuracy as it helped in my skillup parties on Steelshells. 250% gave me more hits for the amazing rdm damage that makes a pld sweat than the double miss at TP 100% that makes a drk see a kindred soul.

P.S. Just razing ya guys

[imac2much]

What I'm wondering is whether your fast blade actually did more damage at 250% than at 100% (considering both hits connected and no double attack of you are using Joyeuse). TP will only affect one trait of the weapon skill; in this case, either the damage or the accuracy.

And stop poking fun of my PLD deficiencies It's sad because it's true...

[ForumWhore]

Fast blade definitely has higher damage at higher TP, no clue about the accuracy though.

The highest damage I've ever done with any WS was 1100'ish 300%TP Sneak attack Savage Blade (on a too-weak mob). Not even 300%TP Souleater Vorpal Blade comes close.

[Apple Pie]

Well, whatever TP I have, sometimes only one of two swings lands on EP mobs. I'm pretty sure it is different from something like Sidewinder and Swift Blade (More TP = More Accuracy).

[Akiro]

ah okay thanks Apple didnt know that, +1 to my INT woot

[Fuzzbox]

The other slightly annoying thing about any multi-hit weaponskill is that if you miss the first hit but connect with the second hit (and subsequent hits, if applicable), you do not get the "base" TP return from your weapon, only the additional 1% from each extra hit.

I've had it happen rather a lot in exp PT where I will open with Fast Blade and only get 1% TP return (missed the first hit but connected with the second), I can only imagine this gets even more annoying when you miss the first hit of Vorpal Blade and only get 3% TP max return from it (instead of say... 9% with a longsword-type weapon).

I really think they should fix this so that the first hit that connects will give you the base TP return, and then any subsequent hits that connect give you an additional 1%.

[ZQM]

Hijack ahoy.

Originally posted by imac2much
(considering both hits connected and no double attack of you are using Joyeuse).

Joyeuse can go off on WSs? I believe Joyeuse is something around ~50% chance of 2 attacks, and Double Attack is around ~10%. However, ~8/10 times when I use Vorpal Blade with Joyeuse in main hand, I won't get a double attack. The couple times it does go off, I would assume it would be because of my Job Trait.

Considering how frequently Joyeuse goes off and how unfrequently I get an extra attack on a WS, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't. However, it's impossible for me to test this since I can't get ride of my job trait. If you go as something like PLD/WHM and willing to test this, I would be very interested in the results (so I know weather or not I should have Joyeuse in my main when dual-wielding swords).