42 and blah

[dirtyclown]

ok, i got to 42 last week. several higher end red mages i know said that after 41 it gets "super fun" and is "awesome". this is a lie. unless you enjoy people yelling at you for refresh while you're casting it on them or while your timer is still going down to 0 so you can cast on them then you'll hate this job. being a red mage has gone steadily from a rockin job to a really suckass one. support is fun, but not when people go out of their way and make a "please refresh me!" macro complete with a call every time they cast a nuke. i turned off my game sounds long ago, but to add a call to that macro to grab attention is insulting. i don't think i'm doing anything wrong in parties, i refresh everyone that needs it, debuff, backup heal, etc. any ideas what it could be?

[bonovoxpsu]

lmao

welcome to the game, refresh whore. what, you thought you got pt invites because of enfeebling??

and i would stop hating refresh right now. its your one way ticket to pt invites. without it, you're just a gimped whm/blm.

enjoy.

[dirtyclown]

haha. thanks for the inspirational words, i really appreciate seeing that. for some reason i'm looking forward to seeing those annoying ass "refresh mee!!" macros again.

[dworkin]

wait what about dispel ???

[Uroboros]

hahahahahaha

In parties I pretty much hate RDM, Refresh Haste Grav Refresh Haste Slow Refresh Haste Paralyze Refresh Paralyze Paralyze rest repeat. After about an hour of this I'm ready to stop. Which is unfortunate since it's at least nine hours of partying to get one level.

Of course, this largely depends on the setup of the party. If you get PLD, DRK, WAR, BLM, WHM, you, you are going to want to quit the game (three Hastes, five Refreshes, backup healing). If you get NIN, THF, RNG, BRD, BLM, you, you will have an obscene amount of fun (one Haste, two Refreshes, double regen, what's healing? nuke away!). It just depends.

The reward is that it's a really fun job outside of exp pts (NMs, missions, quests, solo), and even if what you're doing is often tedious, it's very important.

oh edit! I have a Refresh rule - if you ask for it I'm not giving it to you. I pride myself on being an excellent RDM in exp parties, when Refresh drops on someone it's only gone for like five seconds. 99% of players have realized this within two mobs and are happy the rest of the party (paladins in particular - what are you RDMs doing that don't keep paladins refreshed?). The other 1% have some stupid Refresh macro or type something out or send me a tell and I just tell them right away that's enough of that, it's coming, if they don't have it it's because I'm slave to a recast timer, if they ask again they can go without. And usually those people don't talk to me for the rest of the party but at least they're not asking again either.

[AtraposBLM]

My general rule for asking for refresh was I'd wait 30 seconds before asking for refresh. I'd also watch to make sure the rdm wasn't already starting his refresh chain, or there weren't other circumstances preventing my precious refresh from coming.

But there've been numerous times where I've been partied with rdm's where I'll go several fights without refresh...and if I'm not the party leader, what else can I do other than say something? If you don't like being a refresh whore, play a different job. RDM has a lot of strengths, but you have to realize that you're not in the party for enfeebling - that's icing on the cake. Your ability to keep everyone refreshed will make or break the party. That's why you get the invite - not if you recast paralayze 3 seconds faster than a different rdm.

On the other hand, I've actually had a few rdm's that around 41 *asked me* to make a refresh macro. They weren't really used to it yet, so for the first few battles, I'd use the macro when it wore. I talked to them in /t about it, and as soon as they felt comfortable, I stopped using the macro.

Keep in mind, most of the people that ask for refresh are probably being reasonable. Yes, there are tools out there...but try not to assume that every person that asks for a refresh is a shade better than a devil.

[Uroboros]

I totally agree with what Atrapos said about the role of an RDM and why they were invited. On your Refresh comment tho, I don't let it fall for longer than five, six seconds ever, if someone was letting you go 30 seconds+ or multiple fights, that's not me. ^^ Then ask, they're not doing their job. But like (and this has only happened three or four parties ever) when I'm about to hit my macro to cast it on you, and you ask me for it, when it fell two seconds ago, that's when I get irritated, and I don't think that's unreasonable. It'd be like "Hey Atrapos be sure to burst this chain" as you hit your Stonega III macro, but it was five fights in a row.

[Apple Pie]

The easiest way to keep them refreshed is watch the clock of your screen (not the one in RL).
http://www5.sppd.ne.jp/grendal/FF11/clock.jpg

Refresh lasts approximately for 1 hour (a little longer in fact) in Vana'diel time. Therefore, remember when it takes effect. For example, if it does on 1:40, recast it on 2:40 and you are one of excellent refreshers on your server.

I know sometimes it is hard to keep that - especially when we have to deal with mobs linked or added.

but to add a call to that macro to grab attention is insulting.

I agree. Those who use such a macro have never tried RDM. They simply don't know how hard it is.

Well, I've never seen such people among us but I won't refresh them if I see the macro like this.

[Sukashi]

Apple Pie: !!!... I definitely'll try that out the next time I'm in an EXP party.

As the other RDMs have said, if you don't like keeping Refresh duties, you should seriously find another job to play. Try to embellish all you want, but parties want RDMs solely for Refresh and Dispel.

Granted... you *could* play by the standards when FFXI first came out in Japan... no Convert, no Refresh, none of the "luxuries" that we have nowadays >< But you can ask anyone playing during those days which job was most not-wanted :sweat:

The way I think of Refreshing (and it keeps me interested in my job, I swear!): You're keeping the EXP chains alive, you're helping the party substantially with MP regeneration, one of the things any mage would give anything for.

[dirtyclown]

thanks for the tips Apple. i'll keep my eye on the clock when casting. i don't have a problem with refreshing people, i look at it the same way that Sukashi does. my brain gets tired after about an hour of hitting different buttons and speed reading to catch when different spells wear off and such while at the same time watch the monster in case it tries a self buff. and when someone decides to be an ass when i'm trying my best to keep everyone refreshed and happy, it makes me want to...choke them. oh well, i'm gonna level my white mage for a change of pace when i start up again. maybe then i'll have some enthusiasm.

edit: oh, um when i decided to be a red mage for good i read up on everything i'd be doing in parties post 41. lurked around this forum for about 3 weeks reading threads and making sure i was ready for it. i applaud the red mages who asked for a bit of help from you Atropos, at least they're learning their job better and not making the rest of us look silly.

[Wrath]

Yes RDM is a tiring job, but it is rewarding so thats why I stick with it

[Patchinko]

As I tell the people in my set PT, the endless macro bashing resulting from Refreshing, Dispelling, Bursting and Equipment changing gives me a headache about two hours into a PT. But it's a good headache because it means I'm doing a good job.^^

Forgetting to Refresh my WHM makes me feel very guilty. ; ; However, I feel better when he asks for Refresh the next time and realizes I had already cast it on him~

Anyhow, while it's one of the hardest jobs around (I've yet to decide between RDM and NIN as hardest to play perfectly... but that's beside the point), it's also one of the most rewarding when done well, of course.

[iczelion74]

Well I use a little different approach then Apples to keep up with my refrehes and it works great for me.. I always get a set casting order for the EXP party and then I remember it....

paladin cast 3rd
blm cast 4th
rdm (me) cast 1st
whm cast 2nd
sam
drg

Now by casting on me and then immediately casting on the next person when refresh is available again(25 seconds), and then the next and next I know that mine will always run out first and then appx. 25 seconds after that cast 2 will run out, 25 after cast 3 and so on. I can usually keep it close enough so that while Im casting their refresh pops off and they are immediately re-refreshed. I have definitley received some oohs and aahs by usings this method, but differnet methods work for different people.

[Shiia]

I agree, after long time playing my mnk I had times when PT asked me to swap to rdm because simply there were no Rdm seeking. As a monk I can keep up with good performance for more than 3~4 hours and still can go on. As rdm... well after the 2nd hour my performance of hasting drops. After 3rd hour my refresh order is totally screwed because of exaustion (sp?). Entering 4th hour and I might find myself sleeping.

[bonovoxpsu]

it can be tedious, i agree... but if you want to really know tedious - lvl bard for a while

hell, yesterday my static ripped off some 20k worth of XP in one session. ONE SESSION.

using Apple Pie's suggestion, I was able to stay on the ball with my refresh cycle better then I ever had.

yesterday was probably the first day i "got it" and understood how to refresh just about as perfect as you can. on top of that i added some new equipment macros (mnd/int switching). it was intense. made 110k while XPing too - but that's a whole different story... ^^

in other news... why don't we get any real spells from 60-65? we get, what, protect IV and shell IV? bah, if there's anywhere we need a gravity2 (or even DEMI!!!! please square please! ), its right there. and i wish they would put in dia3/bio3/poison3. thought they were the mid60's spells. guess they're too powerful. i'm already a fan of poison2 - i think its a highly underrated spell to be honest.

or how about give us some other buff spell - accuracy buff, attack buff, something to take advantage of that oh so sexy enhancing skill... ok i'm done now