What's so bad about RDM/WHM??

[neosoul]

whm sub better than blm sub, uh no.

Drain, aspir, elemental enfeebles, escape, elemental seal for emergenices in case you get a link and sleep fails, conserve mp, magic attk up, to help in magic bursting, need I say more??

with whm, wow you get more healing power, magic defense up, how uber, and....you cant even use teleport spells until the 70's to escape with. I have a good idea, why not just invite a real whm ?

however whm lovers will always be biased towards that sub, so its your choice about the matter

[Shiia]

I am having worst of lucks in subs these days. I have been asked to sub whm because I have erase and whm doesn't. (well ... orz) ConserveMP is something I didn't wanted to lose but alas, erase and curative spells are essentials when you are fighting areas with status anomalies.

Yes I do have both lvled... sort of whm is broken though... Blm is 35, whm is 33 yah I can't cast Viruna shoot me...

[Vinen]

Personally I like being sub WHM for one reason, Stronger group Bar Spells, this can help reduce damage taken from some NMs with add damage that cannot be remove thru normal means.

[Lightseeker]

Do you want to know what the absolute best subjob is for RDM? It's very simple -- it's the one your party needs most! Last night I was invited to Gustav: we had blm/whm, 2 thf, sam, and pld. Would I have been able to join that party with blm sub? No. They mainly needed me for healing and I was willing and able to oblige. If they'd had a whm/blm instead, it would have been better for me to sub blm. Rdm is about /adaptability/ more than any other job. Let the subjob fit the situation.

[neosoul]

so what you are saying is that they wanted your whm sub because they couldnt find a whm,

[yuukei]

That's exactly what he's saying. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's no big secret that RDM can act as a very effective WHM. If they needed to find a blm but there wasn't one and you had a blm sub they'd ask you to switch to that too. If you want to use the argument that you can invite a real WHM instead of a RDM/WHM, hell you can invite a real BLM instead of a RDM/BLM according to that logic. A real BLM would obviously be better, if a real WHM is so obviously better than RDM/WHM.

The RDM's strength is his versatility. He has a wide range of abilities that allow him to fit several roles. If you only limit yourself to one sub, then you are NOT using your rdm to its fullest potential. Face it. WHM and BLM sub each offer things that the other does not, and each sub is valuable in DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. So, to summarize, neither blm nor whm sub are better than the other. They are different.

((edited for grammar))

[neosoul]

Yeah i guess theres nothing wrong with levelling whm to be the leftover invite. Its your time and money. I've never had trouble finding parties with the preferred sub.

[neosoul]

I can heal fine with a blm sub, ever heard of cure cap? And I have better spells and can help my party in case mobs link with chainspell+escape or e.seal and sleepga. What is a whm going to do? yeah, probably divine seal curaga and die while the whole party runs for the zone.

[yuukei]

Originally posted by neosoul
Yeah i guess theres nothing wrong with levelling whm to be the leftover invite. Its your time and money. I've never had trouble finding parties with the preferred sub.

And many have never had trouble finding parties as a RDM/WHM, what's your point?

I can heal fine with a blm sub, ever heard of cure cap? And I have better spells and can help my party in case mobs link with chainspell+escape or e.seal and sleepga. What is a whm going to do? yeah, probably divine seal curaga and die while the whole party runs for the zone.

Of course you can heal just fine with blm sub. I never said you couldn't. And I know very well about how well you can escape and sleepga. But that's just what your abilities are for. Emergencies. WHM sub has bar-elemental spells and status cures. All of which are useful when fighting tough opponents. Divine seal helps out a lot if you need to heal someone a lot very quickly. Actually killing off the mob by giving your tank a large chunk of hp to land that finishing blow is a good ability to have. Removing Curse/Paralyze/Whatever in the middle of the battle is also very nice. What you don't get is that WHM sub offers the kind of support that allows others to DEFEAT a tough mob in normal situations and increases survivability, not escape from it entirely. Not saying that's a better skill than emergency escaping, sleeping adds, etc, but hell, a BLM can do those things just fine. Only thing a RDM/BLM does is allow a BLM to focus more on attacking, or takes over that role completely. Just like a RDM/WHM would allow a WHM to focus more on healing, or takes over that role completely. It helps in a completely different way than your BLM sub.

BLM is by no means better, no matter what you say. The two subs make RDM just too entirely DIFFERENT other than refresh bot to make any real comparison, because you will do entirely different things depending on the situation. RDM/WHM is support oriented. RDM/BLM is offense oriented. You might as well compare WHM and BLM at this point. If you want to compare something, compare RDM/BLM to BLM/WHM, or RDM/WHM to WHM/BLM. Don't compare apples and oranges.

[neosoul]

I guess both would work, a rdm is still a rdm. Unless its something stupid like rdm/nin

[Lightseeker]

Originally posted by neosoul
so what you are saying is that they wanted your whm sub because they couldnt find a whm,

And they'd be hard pressed to find a WHM who can refresh. What, exactly, is wrong with that? The longest I have ever been LFP is about 30 minutes, and that was in the middle of the day when JP were going to bed and NA were all at work/school. Please get over the idea that blm is a "preferred" sub. Each PT is going to "prefer" something, based on their needs. Versatility -- it's why SE implemented subjobs in the first place, and its what makes RDM so much fun to play.

[Karinya]

Originally posted by Lightseeker
Do you want to know what the absolute best subjob is for RDM? It's very simple -- it's the one your party needs most! Last night I was invited to Gustav: we had blm/whm, 2 thf, sam, and pld. Would I have been able to join that party with blm sub? No. They mainly needed me for healing and I was willing and able to oblige. If they'd had a whm/blm instead, it would have been better for me to sub blm. Rdm is about /adaptability/ more than any other job. Let the subjob fit the situation.

A 4-melee party in Gustav? Don't they EVER learn?

How much exp did you get in this party? You may have been better off not joining it.

OK, you could substitute a bard for one of the thieves and have something viable that still doesn't have a whm main. But even then, you can heal just about as well with blm sub (you only lose divine seal): whm sub only gives you curaga and status cures, which the blm already has (and the hypothetical bard probably has too).

RDM/WHM doesn't get anything from that sub that BLM/WHM doesn't already have. (It should go without saying that if you need either the RDM or BLM to sub WHM, the BLM should do it at level 40+ - he doesn't lose conserve MP by doing so.) And any party which has no BLM *or* WHM in it is probably one you are better off staying out of.

Unless someone wants to claim SMN BRD RDM is a good backline - in that case there really is a good reason for the RDM to sub WHM, because neither of the other two can bar worth a damn. I haven't partied with summoners enough to know if their abilities can make up for giving up a WHM or BLM in that slot.

[Lightseeker]

Originally posted by Karinya

A 4-melee party in Gustav? Don't they EVER learn?

How much exp did you get in this party? You may have been better off not joining it.

OK, you could substitute a bard for one of the thieves and have something viable that still doesn't have a whm main. But even then, you can heal just about as well with blm sub (you only lose divine seal): whm sub only gives you curaga and status cures, which the blm already has (and the hypothetical bard probably has too).

Was there a bard lfp? No. Was it the greatest party in the history of exp parties? No. We did what I would consider OK. Only death came from a high-level train, little downtime, most of the damage to the mob was MB and SATA. IIRC everyone leveled once before the party broke. It's amazing to see the same posts over and over, as though nothing posted above was read. Do people on this forum really reply without reading the whole thread? That would be a shame.

Edit: as for why I joined? I usually don't join a pt unless there's a whm or bard, however the blm was a good friend from my LS, and I knew he'd make it a workable pt even if it wasn't ideal. I'll always choose to play with friends over random people, especially when I know those friends to be good players who won't invite me to a cruddy pt.

[Beener]

Honest reason i picked blm sub over whm?

Well more MP, conserve MP, warp, and MOST importantly MORE DEBUFFS aka the blm series of elem debuffs (ppl seem to overlook this often).

But the biggest reason?

Levelin whm sucks, that job bores me to tears.

[neosoul]

I agree Beener. I love the role of the whm in the party but its incredbly boring to actually play the whm, heal, heal, heal, heal...