Red Mage/Summoner

[Merik]

I was just wondering if someone wouldn't mind listing the pro's and con's about becoming a Red Mage / Summoner. I know it may not be the most ideal job class, but it's what I wanted to use, so I was hoping that someone could help me out with some of the good things about it.

Some of the things that I figured were to end up equipping items that raised the Attack, Defense, and HP of my character almost exclusively, to make up for the loss of those three stats due to the two classes in the job combo.

If someone would just help me out with this, so I can determine whether I would like RDM/SUM, or whether I should go with my other choice, RDM/SAM or RDM/WAR, then that'd be awesome.

[Merik]

I realize that I have a lot of time left until that point, but with the way my playing schedule works, I have to basically make a definite decision on what I want to become, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Rodin]

Almost every RDM i've seen has subbed blm. SMN is okay if you want more MP, but you'll lose out on a lot of good spells (WARP being the main, the -ga spells for farming.) Sub BLM, it's a wiser choice.

[Bamce Sylph]

/points to giant stickied post at the top of the forum

[Dtec]

Re: Red Mage/Summoner

Originally posted by Merik
I was just wondering if someone wouldn't mind listing the pro's and con's about becoming a Red Mage / Summoner. I know it may not be the most ideal job class, but it's what I wanted to use, so I was hoping that someone could help me out with some of the good things about it.

Some of the things that I figured were to end up equipping items that raised the Attack, Defense, and HP of my character almost exclusively, to make up for the loss of those three stats due to the two classes in the job combo.

If someone would just help me out with this, so I can determine whether I would like RDM/SUM, or whether I should go with my other choice, RDM/SAM or RDM/WAR, then that'd be awesome.

Please do not go RDM/SAM or RDM/WAR. The only good combos are RDM/WHM, RDM/BLM/ or RDM/SMN (if you have all the avatars).

[Vinen]

RDM/SMN is awful.

[Azael]

don't listen to ppl who say that /blm is the only way to go. It's one of two options in my mind. RDM/WHM is an extremely viable combo. People say sub blm mostly because they want warp, and the -ga spells for farming. Thats nice and all ,but isn't it about being an effective pt member?

/whm gives you protect-ra spells, then -na line of spells for taking off status effects the bar-ra spells for times when u fight crabs (like every other xp zone) and u can bar water to reduce damage bubble shower does. or barfire for bomb toss on gobs. Yes you have to ghetto warp (die on lvl 1 toon) or get a tele, or buy a warp II from blm, or maybe walk places, so what, it's just a little mroe time. Whm also gives u divine seal, which means after u convert, u divine seal, and cure III and ur at near full hp at lvl 40, at higher lvls u may not be in the white but a regen II from whm will set u good. Lots of rdms have trouble verting cuz they are /blm and have to use Cure IV to heal themselves after convert, that draws mundo hate when cast on urself. imo u are a great asset to pt as a /whm, /blm is very good too, but don't let ne one tell u it's the only path to walk.

as for /smn, it loses all the versitility rdms should have, all u get are the avatars limited abilities that can effect the pt, but honestly, i don't know when i would have time to do that in pt, i'm always busy with my rdm related jobs, and i use the stuff from my sub all the time.

[Uroboros]

BLM Conserve MP more than makes up for the extra MP SMN sub gets. Conserve MP alone makes BLM a worthwhile subjob. Perhaps doesn't make up for auto-Refresh, but that's just 1200mp more an hour...nothing to sneeze at, but let's look at what else you give up. With BLM you also get Chainspell Escape, a group-saving measure no other class combination can duplicate. And you get Drain, Aspir, more MP than WHM sub, Frost, Shock, and Choke (and the others, but those are the key ones IMO), Elemental Seal (invaluable with Sleep II and Silence), and Warp (great for being lazy, which I am).

So if you go SMN you give all that up in exchange for basically doing things a SMN main should be doing for you. Whereas the things an RDM with BLM subbed does and a BLM main does don't really overlap.

Also - compensating for RDM's lack of vitality, defense, and HP is a mistake, IMO. You can get away with that before lv50+, but after that if all your gear isn't mage-focused you are going to stick your enfeebles about 20% of the time, even with skills capped. Half-measures don't work in FFXI past a certain point. You have to focus on your role or you will be ineffective in groups. Just like melees have to get a ridiculous amount of +ACC gear to even hit half the time, RDMs have to do the same with MND/INT. RDMs are NOT the jack of all trades, despite being billed as such. Before 30, yeah, kind of, after that, no.

don't listen to ppl who say that /blm is the only way to go. It's one of two options in my mind. RDM/WHM is an extremely viable combo. People say sub blm mostly because they want warp, and the -ga spells for farming. Thats nice and all ,but isn't it about being an effective pt member?

WHM is good too. But for people outlining actual reasons why BLM is the best sub, I don't think anyone has brought up -ga spells or Warp as the main reasons. Also - farming with RDM/BLM for -gas means you're not subbing THF. RDM can do ghetto -ga farming without subbing BLM using a dagger and Cyclone anyway. As for being an effective pt member with /BLM - see above, Chainspell Escape, Choke/Frost, Elemental Seal, etc. Warp doesn't enter into it. I don't think BLM is the only way to go but I do think it's the best.

Also, once again, the things WHM sub adds are things a WHM main would be doing, like Protectras (#1 reason I HATE HATE HATE partying without a WHM is having to upkeep Pro/Shell3 on the whole party every 30 minutes and totally hosing my manapool for it) or status cures. Whereas the things BLM sub adds don't really interfere with the job of a BLM main, i.e. just because you're subbing BLM doesn't mean your job includes more nuking.

[Karinya]

This was already covered in detail on another thread, so I'll just summarize.

Below level 30 it doesn't matter much - several different jobs give some abilities that are at least somewhat useful. Elvaan or Galka RDM need the MP of a mage sub even at low levels, though (unless they have astral rings).

RDM/BLM: Warp (34+), Escape (64+), Conserve MP (40+), Elemental Seal (30+), elemental enfeebles (32+). The most popular choice for two reason: Conserve MP - a very powerful ability - and Elemental Seal, which despite the name also works on enfeeble spells, making them much harder to resist.

RDM/WHM: status cures, Curaga (32+), Divine Seal (30+), teleports (72+). Always good if your party doesn't have a WHM. After 40, Conserve MP is generally more important if your party does have a WHM.

RDM/BRD: Notable mainly for Mage's Ballad at 50+. Useful if your party doesn't have a bard. Offensive songs weak with low skill and no instrument, and can only have one buff song - but it's Ballad.

RDM/SMN: Highest base MP (including some +MP traits) and Auto-Refresh at 50+, however, the overall effect (number of extra spells you can cast) is less than that of Conserve MP (after level 40). As with all /smn combos, summons are basically worthless.

RDM/any melee: RDM melee ability falls behind dedicated melee jobs, even if you have a melee sub. Furthermore you have more important things to do. Melee subs aren't that great by level 20, and only get worse at higher levels. The exception is RDM/THF which is good for farming because of Gilfinder and Treasure Hunter, but you shouldn't bring it to an exp party, BCNM, EF, etc. where you expect a serious fight.

RDM/RNG: I've never seen this, it's kinda pointless when RDM can't use the best bows and again, have more important things to do.

Overall /blm's abilities fit the best with RDM to make the most powerful red mage, but /whm or /brd can add something to the *party* that it may otherwise be lacking. I don't recommend anything else except under really unusual circumstances (e.g., I once tanked Dread Dragon as RDM/WAR - but that's at level 25, and other jobs would have done better at it if we had had them.)

[Tulen]

It's best to sub a mage class rather than a melee. Yes, at lv 11 you are able to melee pretty well, but that is going to drop off sharply as you level up. I have seen some /nin out there and they seem to do ok, but /blm or /whm is the suggested path to take.

[Silkiv]

Any subjob is better than no subjob.. but with many the use of a subjob can enhance the strongpoints of a main.

Attempting to look at it at a tactical standpoint. Opinionated.

Magic bursts are another reason for rdm/blm ... sure rdm may only have C+ in elemental and Drk may have a B+ yet Rdm has layer 3 spells and gets layer 2 earlier than drk. So in my opinion they are 2nd best in elemental, especially with generally a bigger mana pool than drk.

Rdm/Blm brings out their potentional to be 2nd best elemtalists when there is no blm in the party.
1. Participating in mb with a better degree than other rdm/ combinations with lower int.
2. Able to nuke to kill monsters that go out of hand or ones with high def.
3. Enfeebles that rely on int. The enfeebles listed under black magic.

Rdm as Healer. Rdm are again 2nd or 3rd Best healer. Healing is at C- which is below the C of pld, but again Pld has less mp, and often time will use the mp to keep hate.

Rdm/Whm
1. Higher mnd for better cures.
2. A wider arrangement of cure spells. i.e. poisona, cursna, curaga, etc.
3. Enfeebles that rely on mnd. The enfeebles listed under white magic.

I don't know much of the benefits of other rdm combinations but they were listed already.

[Beener]

Best idea: Level both whm and blm subs.

I personally prefer BLM over WHM for a number of reasons

1. More MP, more INT
2. Chainspell + Escape in Castle Oztroja or other beastmen places is an absolute savior, and btw it's at 58rdm/29blm, not 64.
3. Conserve MP helps a lot, considering RDM ALWAYS has the least MP in the PT (we are basically constantly casting refresh, debuffs, dispel).
4. Warp is nice, admittedly.

MOST IMPORTANT REASON- As a redmage over lvl 41, you will be so truly busy that the main benefit of /whm (status cures) would drive you out of your mind. We are either the first or second busiest job in the game, and hardly have time to cure the damage dealer's blind and paralyze while fighting bones, etc.

Also, being that all cure spells except CureV have caps on them, having higher mind is not a big deal. Especially considering that we can't use cureV

[Altruist]

As noted earlier /blm is the most viable exp PT sub conserve mp is great, aspir is incredibly useful til level 68ish, elemental seal means you can get a enfeeble to land almost all the time once every 10 minutes, or in my case a level III nuke ^^.

However there is a time for most subs, warrior, dkn, and pld are all good for solo against strong monsters, ninja is great for survivability but you get slightly more damage than /blm, and no vorpal, which is our best ws for non renkei action (unless you count dynammis). Savage blade btw is only a little better than fast blade for farming ; ;.

Some hnm want you to sub summoner, but for exp PT we would burn through a ton of mp that we need for other things, like fire III ^^.

[Tulerin]

Short and simple:
/blm and /whm offer so much more then a /smn will ever provide.

[Vinen]

Depending on the Situation WHM SJ can far outnumber BLM SJ in use. Even hunted Tigers in Kuftal? heh..... god I hate Paralzye...........................

I feel its best for all RDMs to have both maxed out WHM SJ and maxed out BLM SJ~ and to use the proper one for the proper situation.

I also feel /whm is best for Taru. But yeah~ do as you like just if you choose a non whm or blm sj you may have trouble finding groups at higher levels~