What's my role then?!

[Funguwari]

In this topic: "RDM vs. BRD post 55 (i hope we win)"
Some RDMs said BRDs are more useful... which I can see, they got Madrigal, etc. But, to say Refresh is the one thing that justifies this class, I need to say I'm dissapointed. One spell dosen't make a class a god... they need to have more than just one spell to make a good class. Either way, I think all jobs are equal and have their roles, but, if that one... single... spell makes RDM equal to other classes, then, agian, I'm dissapointed.

Please, tell me my role if later on I can't use enfeebles and/or the other mage jobs land them just as fine... I know I have more Curing potential with Cure IV, but, I heard that produces Gullotine-type hate... which then, why would you use unless you had a death wish?

I'm confused... I really don't mind about solo ability... it's the PTing ability that makes me want to be a class, because the only time I solo is on quests... and I mostly overpower enemies so much at the time I do the quest, (i.e., helping someone do the DRG quest when I pull out my 60+ job) that it dosen't matter to me, at all a classes solo ability. (I heard BRD can beat the Zi'Tah tree at 60+, just like other classes, because... they are 60+)

Anyway, what is my role? Just being a Refresher? Because, can't juices create the same effect? And with that being said, only thing a RDM does is save the mages money than actually reduce downtime... because, if Refresher is the role... juices can do it, only they cost gil...

I know I may sound like I'm talking out of my ass, which, looking back on my paragraphs it seems like I'm doing it. But, I'm seriously confused.

P.S.; I know this dosen't belong on this board but, I'm having the same problem with high Lv WAR... and if you can answer me, then, OK shoot.

[Synbios]

Re: What's my role then?!

Originally posted by Funguwari
In this topic: "RDM vs. BRD post 55 (i hope we win)"
Some RDMs said BRDs are more useful... which I can see, they got Madrigal, etc. But, to say Refresh is the one thing that justifies this class, I need to say I'm dissapointed. One spell dosen't make a class a god... they need to have more than just one spell to make a good class. Either way, I think all jobs are equal and have their roles, but, if that one... single... spell makes RDM equal to other classes, then, agian, I'm dissapointed.

Please, tell me my role if later on I can't use enfeebles and/or the other mage jobs land them just as fine... I know I have more Curing potential with Cure IV, but, I heard that produces Gullotine-type hate... which then, why would you use unless you had a death wish?

I'm confused... I really don't mind about solo ability... it's the PTing ability that makes me want to be a class, because the only time I solo is on quests... and I mostly overpower enemies so much at the time I do the quest, (i.e., helping someone do the DRG quest when I pull out my 60+ job) that it dosen't matter to me, at all a classes solo ability. (I heard BRD can beat the Zi'Tah tree at 60+, just like other classes, because... they are 60+)

Anyway, what is my role? Just being a Refresher? Because, can't juices create the same effect? And with that being said, only thing a RDM does is save the mages money than actually reduce downtime... because, if Refresher is the role... juices can do it, only they cost gil...

I know I may sound like I'm talking out of my ass, which, looking back on my paragraphs it seems like I'm doing it. But, I'm seriously confused.

P.S.; I know this dosen't belong on this board but, I'm having the same problem with high Lv WAR... and if you can answer me, then, OK shoot.

Main role, enfeeble. The other mage jobs won't be able to land anything after 50/60. No one uses Cure IV as a staple cure, only time you'll use it is in emergency or after you Convert. The only drink which can take over Refresh is Yagudo, I doubt anyone would wanna spend so much, it's like saying "Let's all buy hi-potions and do away with the White Mages."

[Uroboros]

Either way, I think all jobs are equal and have their roles, but, if that one... single... spell makes RDM equal to other classes, then, agian, I'm dissapointed.

If it makes you feel better, we're not one spell, we're two. Starting at about 33-34, you're going to need to Dispel nearly every fight, sometimes many times during the fight. Yeah, Bards get Magic Finale, but that has a 24 second recast, whereas Dispel is only eight. And there will be frequent times when immediately following your Dispel debuff, they rebuff instantly. And again. And again.

I wouldn't worry about Bards, you're not going to have trouble getting parties regardless. Yeah, they are better at buffing and HP/MP regeneration, yeah buffing is more effective than debuffing. But until there are somehow dozens more Bards in circulation, it's a non-issue. Besides, does Ranger being the best damage class make all the other ones obselete?

[Elusivellama]

A bard is perhaps a better support job than a red mage. Group refresh, group regen, sleep songs, madrigal, etc etc are very useful. But that's really all they're good for. In an emergency, the best they can do is bust out the sleep songs and use their abysmally low mana bar to cure.

We, as red mages, are more versatile than pure support. We have more mps than bard/whm with which to cure, and access to higher curing spells to boot.

We have the highest enfeebling skill, which is useful for landing paralyze, slow and silence, three of the most important debuffs in the game used from low level all the way to high level.

Our dispel is on a much shorter timer than magic finale.

We are the second best when it comes to nuking (magic burst, always), and when the going gets really tough, we can bust out the Chainspell + Convert to save our party from certain death (while bards have to use their aweseome soul voice 2hr). An extra full bar of mana AND no recast timer or casting delay can be very effective if used correctly.

People will still pick a bard over a red mage because their support skills are on a higher level then ours. They hope for trouble free exp, and don't foresee the possibility of an emergency, which we are far better equipped to deal with than bards. But bards are few and far between, while a red mage can refresh, dispel, cure, nuke, enfeeble AS WELL as deal with emergencies. We are not only masters of enfeebling magic, but also the jack of all trades at other magic (nuking, healing, support). So don't worry, our spots in future parties are pretty solid as long as you keep up to date on spells.

[bonovoxpsu]

don't be so sad - trust me, post 41, you become mr. popular. especially if you're a taru.

and yes, chainspell+convert really does = awesome. for an ADD situation, where everyone is low on hp/mp (or a spawn hits you as your resting), chainspell+convert will save your pt.

it happened to me last night. elemental seal + sleep2 - IT GOT RESISTED >_< by a mummy, so he wasn't too happy with me while the pt dealt with our original pull. i was in bad shape, so i chainspelled, stoneskin,blink, cure4, convert, cure3,refresh,blink, sleep (somehow this one stuck????), then i cured the entire pt and waited for them to kill the original pull. mummy unslept, tried to kill me. i managed him until the original lich (stupid genkai 1) was finished, then the pt got the silly mummy off me.

lets just say that chainspell+convert is just so much fun ^^.

now, again, don't be so down. trust me, rdm is a lot of fun. you have a TON of spells - and taru + blm sub = not so bad nuker. i find that (equiment is up to par ^^) my nukes will land pretty hard - if i pay attention to the weather affect and day. its nice when you see that stone weather - stone2 hits hard then ^^ - easily 165-200ish.

just realize that at these high lvls - YOU ARE A MAGE. bring a wand for the int/md bonuses. but anyway, if you like being a mage, the rdm high lvls are fun ^^.

[Izual]

Main role is usually enfeebles/backup heals, but to be honest, I'd take a rdm over a whm as main healer any day. Especially if you've got a bard, refresh+convert+ballads means almost umlimited mp. Of course you lose some things that only a whm can do like teleports, or more importantly, raise II/III But if you can manage without tele, and manage to not die, rdms are awesome main healers.

[Moggymog]

Lullabies can sleep undead, sleep spells can't. Or rather, I have yet to see a sleep spell successfully sleep an undead creature.

Enfeebling is no where near as useful as the Bard buffs, I hate to say it. And at level 72, just about any mage class can enfeeble well, except for Silence. Which is quite noteworthy since starting at level 68, you'll be fighting some strong caster type mobs. But a WHM/BLM can silence them with seal and even without it if they get really, really lucky. RDM is needed to silence for the most part, however.

Enfeebling is a bit useful, but like I said a party will like BRD buffs a lot more, since they're better. What's really a slap in the face, though, is when someone tells you enfeebles are not worth the MP.

RDM is still a solid, versatile class even if we may not be as effective as a Bard for buffing the party. You can MB to add some damage and you can cure a whole lot. The more you cure instead of the WHM, the more MP the WHM has. If you can keep a good pace (such as not needed to convert under 10 minutes each time) then that's a good, key way to chain effectively. Besides that, keep refresh up and enfeeble between the timer and cure.

[Vaiyo]

Anyway, what is my role? Just being a Refresher? Because, can't juices create the same effect? And with that being said, only thing a RDM does is save the mages money than actually reduce downtime... because, if Refresher is the role... juices can do it, only they cost gil...

Heh, juice can add up to a lot of money over the course of an exp session. In an exp chain of up to 4 at my level, I'm usually casting at least 3 cycles of Refresh to 4 people (including myself); each chain takes up about 10-minutes. If everyone drank juice instead of utilizing Refresh, that's several thousand (possibly 10k+ depending on each person's playing time) gil that will be needing to be spent on juice. And each juice box do not stack ontop of eachother, so in addition to using tons of gil per day, you also have no inventory space; which, on the other hand, one would not be able to carry that many juice boxes to last long at all.

In other words, juice boxes are used for emergency purposes, not for regular use. Refresh is and always will be a superior option to juice.