RNG/SAM Questions

[Szkol]

The threads I found on this seemed a little out of date (2004 was before Hasso, right?) so here's a new one-

I'll lay it out for ya- I hate everything about playing NIN. I dislike it as a sub and dislike it even more as a main, I'd really like to never have to go RNG/NIN again if I can at all help it.

I know /WAR is a popular way to go, and adds a lot of easily foreseeable benefits. That said, I had intended to go the route of a Fire Staff as a main hand weapon (no matter which sub I use- which lowers the usefulness of NIN's dual wield) for the STR and Ranged Attack, and I noticed that I'll get some STR benefits from Hasso as long as I'm using the staff.

I'm also thinking the Store TP trait will be beneficial, especially if I add some Store TP gear, to help me throw out Sidewinder a little more often.

I like that this really loads up the STR and Ranged Attack (staff), versus dual archer's knives for R.Acc and I already have loads of AGI, and I think it's > Berserk simply b/c Berserk would be too much damage.. I'd always be stealing hate and I think that /SAM would just give me better DoT without having to worry so much about stealing hate. and also the fact that it's only active for 3 minutes, while Hasso can always be up. I think the use of Hasso will nicely complement Velocity shot as well, b/c I'll have Hasso and Velocity Shot up constantly, and I'll have Acc Bonus 3 trait at 50 so I don't think I'll miss the Archer's Knives very much. I can see possibly needing to make up with R.Acc elsewhere a little later on, but if I'm not mistaken you get a good amount of that from the Af set, or even the Jaridah set correct? If not then I'll probably wear the Shikaree Aketon for extra R.Att and just pick up extra R.Acc from a ring or a PCC if I'm really hard up.

Thoughts? I'd especially appreciate input from anyone that's actually done RNG/SAM- did it work? I imagine R.Acc becomes the biggest issue after awhile, anything else though?

[Mog]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

The threads I found on this seemed a little out of date (2004 was before Hasso, right?) so here's a new one-

I'll lay it out for ya- I hate everything about playing NIN. I dislike it as a sub and dislike it even more as a main, I'd really like to never have to go RNG/NIN again if I can at all help it.

I know /WAR is a popular way to go, and adds a lot of easily foreseeable benefits. That said, I had intended to go the route of a Fire Staff as a main hand weapon (no matter which sub I use- which lowers the usefulness of NIN's dual wield) for the STR and Ranged Attack, and I noticed that I'll get some STR benefits from Hasso as long as I'm using the staff.

I'm also thinking the Store TP trait will be beneficial, especially if I add some Store TP gear, to help me throw out Sidewinder a little more often.

I like that this really loads up the STR and Ranged Attack (staff), versus dual archer's knives for R.Acc and I already have loads of AGI, and I think it's > Berserk simply b/c Berserk would be too much damage.. I'd always be stealing hate and I think that /SAM would just give me better DoT without having to worry so much about stealing hate. and also the fact that it's only active for 3 minutes, while Hasso can always be up. I think the use of Hasso will nicely complement Velocity shot as well, b/c I'll have Hasso and Velocity Shot up constantly, and I'll have Acc Bonus 3 trait at 50 so I don't think I'll miss the Archer's Knives very much. I can see possibly needing to make up with R.Acc elsewhere a little later on, but if I'm not mistaken you get a good amount of that from the Af set, or even the Jaridah set correct? If not then I'll probably wear the Shikaree Aketon for extra R.Att and just pick up extra R.Acc from a ring or a PCC if I'm really hard up.

Thoughts? I'd especially appreciate input from anyone that's actually done RNG/SAM- did it work? I imagine R.Acc becomes the biggest issue after awhile, anything else though?

Just depends on what you're doing really. If you're in the situation where you could be potentially getting a lot of hate, hate to break it to you, but sub ninja is really good for that. Sub war is usually fine for dynamis. I have ranger and samurai to 75, but I haven't really tested the hasso effect from sub samurai. If I want attack, I'll just sub war.

And also, don't shun a subjob because you hate it. If you're going to join an endgame linkshell, they will expect you to come as a certain job/subjob and saying that you hate a certain subjob usually won't cut it. (Unless you're not gonna do endgame, then well, it's fine to sub whatever you want)

[Szkol]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

And also, don't shun a subjob because you hate it. If you're going to join an endgame linkshell, they will expect you to come as a certain job/subjob and saying that you hate a certain subjob usually won't cut it. (Unless you're not gonna do endgame, then well, it's fine to sub whatever you want)

While I'd really really like to do Dynamis and the like, I don't know that I can really commit to it, and therefore I don't really know if I'll be joining an EGLS. If I do decide to do that, then I think I'll most likely take my NIN simply because it's expeted, like you mentioned. What I'll do first,I think, is just try to get through all of the rank missions, ZMs, CoPs, Aht Urgan Missions, and WotG stuff. If I somehow manage to complete ALL of that before FFXI dies out then I'll maybe get into Dynamis and such, but as of now, I don't have any plans to do any hardcore endgame stuff.

I find that I currently don't have a lot of problems stealing hate- I have a good idea on how far I can push it and now when to slow things down. The only real purpose I currently have for Utsusemi is when Barrage is up and I use i to finish off a mob. Then I might take a hit before I can fully Barrage-> WS. I think Third Eye should be sufficient for that, and for pulling. (still can't believe people ask RNG to pull)

[Malacite]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

I'll lay it out for ya- I hate everything about playing NIN. I dislike it as a sub and dislike it even more as a main, I'd really like to never have to go RNG/NIN again if I can at all help it.

Then you're playing the wrong game. That kind of mentality towards any of the 20 jobs is going to end up hurting you in the long run.

[Nuriko]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

Personally, I don't want to level BRD ... I think there are some jobs you can get away with it for, but NIN isn't one of them.

Also, don't overlook the possible benefits of Seigan, especially if you KNOW you're taking hate with something ... it's far more effective that way, and those people who don't even seem to know what Seigan IS annoy me...

[Szkol]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

Then you're playing the wrong game. That kind of mentality towards any of the 20 jobs is going to end up hurting you in the long run.

That's outstandingly helpful, thanks.


I'm not playing this for the XP grind or to have the most leet character on my server with all my Relic gear, etc.

I want to exp 1 or 2 jobs to 75, and then use them to do missions. If i'm doing Dynamis, Eiherjar, EGLS type stuff, then yes, I know I need certain jobs to be at the absolute top of my game.

For what I want, quests, missions, for starters, I'm just asking what people's experiences have been with RNG/SAM.

[Ellipses]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

Also, don't overlook the possible benefits of Seigan, especially if you KNOW you're taking hate with something ... it's far more effective that way, and those people who don't even seem to know what Seigan IS annoy me...

Is it fairly typical for a RNG to wear a 2-handed weapon?

[Truece]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

Is it fairly typical for a RNG to wear a 2-handed weapon?

If they're /WAR or /SAM, then they'll equip a Fire Staff for the STR and R.Atk.

[Szkol]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

I don't know if I would call it typical, but there are some builds that make use of the Fire Staff b/c of its STR and R.Att bonuses.

This is the route I had been planning to take for awhile, and it doesn't make much sense to me to continue using NIN while I'm using a 2h weapon. It makes a lot more sense to me to have a sub that makes specific use of 2h-weapons. And while I can't make full use of Hasso (+acc and haste) the extra STR is nice, and my R.Att will be increased from Velocity Shot, as well at R.Att speed. The STR will help my damage I think, since I already have loads of AGI.

[Mog]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

I don't know if I would call it typical, but there are some builds that make use of the Fire Staff b/c of its STR and R.Att bonuses.

This is the route I had been planning to take for awhile, and it doesn't make much sense to me to continue using NIN while I'm using a 2h weapon. It makes a lot more sense to me to have a sub that makes specific use of 2h-weapons. And while I can't make full use of Hasso (+acc and haste) the extra STR is nice, and my R.Att will be increased from Velocity Shot, as well at R.Att speed. The STR will help my damage I think, since I already have loads of AGI.

Just out of curiousity, what level is your ranger? Depending on the sub, certain weapons are better. If you're sub ninja, you can make use of the Francisca and Kriegsbiel duo. I believe the kriegsbiel is 70 and you can get from KS99. The Francisca is easier to get from Aquarious. I'll agree though. Whenever I sub warrior, I use Vulcan's staff. But if I'm going to sub ninja, I'll want to make use of two weapons that I can benefit from.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

And while I can't make full use of Hasso

don't overlook the possible benefits of Seigan, especially if you KNOW you're taking hate with something ... it's far more effective that way, and those people who don't even seem to know what Seigan IS annoy me...

Take note.

[Szkol]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

Take note.

Definitely-

When I was reading up on SAM I thought, wow, how cool if those two abilities stacked. Unfortunately no, but I def. see Seigan being extremely helpful in certain situations.


I'm mid 40s on my RNG currently, so for now I think I still benefit much much more from my NIN sub, and also WAR sub. That all changes at 51, I think, when I can equip the staff. The Kriegsbeil and Francisca would be a sweet pair of weapons to have, and if/when I attain them both I might take NIN up to 37 simply to have the option b/w those and the staff.

For those that have played RNG/SAM, did you focus at all on Store TP gear? Rajas Ring is an obvious choice, even if I didn't sub SAM, but are there any other stand out pieces? Do you think I might be better off focusing on other stats instead of Store TP? I think it's a great trait on RNG, but I don't know there's sufficient gear out there to REALLY make use of it, and perhaps I'd be better off focusing on additional R.Att gear.

[Malacite]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

I'm just saying it's a very bad attitude to have in this game. You're only hurting yourself by refusing to level certain jobs at least to 37.


Generally though SAM/RNG requires the following;

- Archery Merits. These are a must have but you can still make due without them
- Soboro Sukehiro. This is the weapon to use for TP gain.
- Ranged Accuracy macro. You'll generally be meleeing for your TP and then switching out to Ranged Accuracy gear for Barrage and Sidewinder.
- Store TP is good to have, but not when shooting since from 59+ (I think 57 is the earliest possible level to get Sidewinder via merits) you'll be using Soboro for your TP gain. Not to mention Demon And Kaburra Arrows aren't cheap.


I did RNG/SAM from 57 to 75 and it was a blast. Take care though, because you will pull hate really, really fast if you go all out. I personally was able to fire as many as 6 Sidewinders a fight if all my job abilities were ready.

[Mog]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

- Soboro Sukehiro. This is the weapon to use for TP gain.

Uhh, you're thinking about sam/rng. Soboro cannot be used by rng main. sam/rng != rng/sam

[Lunaryn]

Re: RNG/SAM Questions

I'd suggest taking anything Malacite says with a grain of salt...

Anyway, most people in this game have jobs that just really rub them the wrong way. The more averse you are to it, though, the more independent and forceful you're going to have to be in setting up situations, the more important it will be for you to establish a reputation for excellence with your chosen methods, and the more shit you will have to take from anyone who hasn't seen your own personal brand of awesome yet.

I was actually in a fairly nice level sync 56 xp party in Vunkerl Inlet [S] the other day with Kamiel as PLD/RDM. Things were going pretty smoothly until our refresher (COR) had to leave. We got a RDM rep, who came out, and upon discovering that Kam was PLD/RDM, told him in no uncertain terms that it did not work at that level, and then refused to refresh him. He dropped party in mid-battle several pulls later (fortunately we were in pretty good shape to handle the mobs 5-man, it just ruins our killspeed to be without a refresher). Our rep for him, also an RDM, worked out much better and we continued like that until it was late enough most of us had to go.

Kamiel is kind of the extreme case of this: Pteryx came into the game wanting to prove the PLD/RDM concept even before any of the enmity testing or talk about the concept had really come about. Because of concerns about being forced to sub WAR even if it was gimped and never having an opportunity to demonstrate /RDM, Kamiel's WAR is level 1 and has never been touched. Most of Kamiel's PLD levels were obtained in a static duo/trio, but as of now it's high enough for PLD/RDM to work in full parties. Seeking on PLD, however, requires a LOT of fending off colibri-party invites, getting invited to parties not going after colibri only to suddenly have other party members insist on doing colibri instead, etc. as well as a full helping of abuse for not being willing to accept parties doing the typical ToAU fare.

Most of the time, people who dislike a job they're expected to sub will level it to 37 anyway, refuse to touch it as a main ever again, and push to bring other subs whenever possible. So it's largely a question of just how much you dislike NIN and how much you're willing to do about it.