RNG Post Patch: first account

[Aeolus]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

If a rng stands close and SS will it not still do a good 600 or so damage instead of 800? that + dacing edge will still do alot of damage. just not as much and itll take a bit longer, or would it nerf it to more like 300damage or something completley gey like that? Also I always see rngs damage compared to others as completely fair, they pay bajillions for it and we dont so its not exactly us loosing out. Now rngs have to pay the same amount for nerfed damage up close or screwing the pts sata, I hardly see this as fair to the rng in any respect.

[ibroyles]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

I think you are right, having a traditional tank to keep hate through the whole battle will probably be most efficient in RNG's case now. So they can carefully adjust themselves to maximize their ranged attacks. However, one question I propose just for the sake of opinion. What melee do you think will best "jive" with RNG now, after the update?

Previously, with a RNG in the party, you wanted your melee front line to contain probably a THF, DRK, or possibly MNK. This is just assuming you are putting a traditional "balanced" party together, in which you wanted to create a Light skillchain for quick decimation of the mob. Now I know, many parties nowadays at Lv73+ will just load up on MNK, WAR, RNG and not even focus on skillchain, just everyone WS or rely on DoT until the mob is dead. However, those parties are obviously restricted to those few jobs which are incredible DoT specialists and end game.

The point here is, there WERE a couple jobs which worked very well with RNG end game, without being insane "DoT specialists." This was solely due to the fact that they could close a light skillchain, and close it well(THF and DRK). Now, we're left with the only job that could easily SC a light skillchain with RNG being a MNK(due to the fact that they dont have to sub /THF as "standard" sub to do their best damage). Considering that fact, we're back full circle to a RNG + MNK party, in which its already been establish that you don't even need a skillchain most of the time with these two jobs, as within 30 seconds the mob is dead, point blank.

Putting all this together, it seems like there are going to be "clicks" end game now(like there already arent heh). MNK, RNG, WAR are going to get along real well as usual. SAM, THF, DRG, as always, will get along pretty well. Is this the way things are going to be now, or am I way off base? I just dont see many RNGs accepting invites to parties now, that have anything resembling a THF or /THF skillchain closer.

[Caspian]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

Thanks aeolus. Not sure how much the dmg difference is b/w steps on xp'ing mobs. When I get back late tonight I'm going to try some too weaks in rolanberry and hopefully some xp mobs in GC or CN. It is going to seriously hurt SATA w/o some major cooperation the likes of which I've never seen in a pickup party. I'm still ready for more ppl to be able to get on and do some checking with various weapons and distances as well as how much dmg is nerfed against xp and higher lvl mobs.
I know I've alrdy asked this, but does anyone know how much dmg rngs would do to fafnir before all this, kinda curious how much of a hit we've taken on that mob, both at point blank and at range.

[Aeolus]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

Everytime you think your getting somewhere SE heads of in a different direction screwing u up, I always got rng nin thf as frontline, in fact just the other night I threw a mnk in as well with rdm and whm. total distruction, insane exp and now Rng are going to take the hate from the nin no bother thanks to the uts nerf i presume and ive got no one to sata with lol. Maybe I can do something with the mnk? still rng will have the mob running about without a sata dancing edge after there skillchains, well without pld as tank, dont wanna get in a fight here but pld tank parties always seem a bit slow to me.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

Well, SE likes giving to us with one hand while they take something away with the other And in any case, I feel bad that pt construction will have to take a ih.t You all touched upon manaburns, and Trick partners and things, so I dont have to say my piece on that, being as it is the same.

All in all, i do not think this will hurt RNGs THAT much. It justs means that RNGs will stay in the backlines, like they should. I mean, seriously, all of you are intelligent individuals, but from my lvl 75 RNG friend, he's proven time and time again that RNG def and eva is next to asshatish. (200 cap in Eva at lvl 75 -.-;;; ). With that said, arent you happy that you are out of AOE range now? ^^ And besides, RNGs isnt a job meant for farming, simply due to the fact that your using what your farming to buy, and I have seen my friend (who is also lvl 70 THF. . .) struggle with EP mobs.

All in all, I'm pretty sure you all, among others, will adapt just fine. Who knows, maybe you'll appreciate the fact that if the tank is bad, you can stand at a point where Sidewinder does considerable damage, but not enough that it's OD and makes the mob mad enough to turn.

[Aeolus]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

Yea we will figure something out to max out damage input and exp gaining wether it be with/without rng lol and then SE will sort that out and so forth, gilsellers arnt lving so why do anything to the jobs. Just sort out the gilsellers and leave us alone, we arnt breaking ur laws lol let us exp xD

[Caspian]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

As far as soloing goes, it was mainly for farming. I can usually make back what I'll use for the entire farming time in about 15 mins. Granted with beehive chips beeing what they are now, and nothing else really increasing in price as much as they have, I guess I'll be sticking with them for a while longer. Hopefull if I can get this 3man promyv farming team going the SAM can hold hate while I get a few feet away.
Does anyone know if the damge:distance scale is real precise, or if it can be eyeballed? Gonna seem like a pain in the ass if I have to count off steps after I pull or the mob moves everytime. Also heard on some other forums yesterday this could make using the fire staff a little more plausible assuming you dont need the extra r. acc. any thoughts?

[Xythalia]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

Ok..my 1st impressions..

I use shadowbind a lot more now while solo. Strangely enough, bind doesn't wear off even if I attack the next round.

Killing mobs solo and doing max dmg is becoming extremely tedious. I guess that's why there is the pet npc quest I guess. I wonder how career rngs will do in Maat fight. Everything will chase you down except for worms. You can only get 1 shot for max dmg in and then it's over. You fight with dmg reduction.

Dmg reduction at point-blank range: It's not as bad as some people suggest. I haven't tried it vs. sky gods or ground HNMs yet, but I plan on doing it some time soon. Here's an example of my romaeve water run today:

My testing equipment: Martial bow (enhanced tp for sidewinder acc) + demon arrows
Shooting from distance on aura pot - 100-120+ dmg.
WS sidewinder from distance - 660-860+ dmg

Shoot at point-blank - 65-80 dmg.
WS sidewinder from point-blank - 430-570 dmg.

Anyone have more results? Please post them if you do ^^

[Xythalia]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

I've sort of noticed that range doesn't effect anything except for ranged acc, maybe. It seems like I do 100% of damage from a distance that is beyond the reach of my melee attacks. So I can choose to stand really far away or sort of close to the mob (but not close enough so that my melee hits are activated) and do the same full dmg per shot. Whenever a mob enters my melee range, that's when I suffer the damage reduction to my shots.

Anyone else have more observations?

[Langolier]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

Hmm...

I would have rather gotten some new spells and/or a new JA.

I'm sure most reasonable melee players would have rather recieved a boost than nerf RNG however as I've always said, "It's easier to nerf RNG than boost all melee."

That said, I'm not sorry. Ranger as a whole got what it deserved. You swamp HNM's and make RNG-only parties and this is what you get.

To those of you who truly loved the job, I'm sorry. You can blame the uber-RNG who left DRG/SAM for bringing this upon your class. You can also blame SE for taking the easy way out.

Sure, Kirin and Gods will be harder now, but guess what? Even if I was allowed to pariticpate there I hardly got anything worthwhile out of it so the fact that it's now gonna be harder to kill those or that BLM and SMN will dominate on their own means little to me.

Misery does indeed enjoy company.

[Jei]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

from the sound of it, rangers may have to sub /war and focus more on damage if they want to pull hate for THFs. Not /nin to end it all anymore.

[Caspian]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

I cant get this forum on my comp at home (its jacked i need to get if fixed) but I can get KI...if you ignore the posts that seem like little children are writing (99% of them are this way) then you can find the 1% that actually have useful information. A few ppl kept saying that there dmg sucked and life was over...yada yada yada. A few ppl said they went out with there normal xp parties and after 3 or 4 hits to find their sweet spots, they were doing the exact same amount of dmg that they were before update. They also said they were able to get SATA to work if the party was skilled enough to figure it out. From what I can tell, it took about 20-30 dmg of big hnm's and stuff like the dahlmels in bibiki that rngs were fighting way to soon for huge xp. It would seem that if you still fight stuff that everyone else xp's off of then you can do the exact same dmg you were if you'll spend the time to find the sweet spot.
Went out last night when I finally got the rest of the update (got d/c'd the night before halfway through) and went to rolanberry to try out xbow and holy's on some too weak stuff just to figure out its sweet spot (most testing was done on bows when i tried this). It would seem best dmg from xbow comes from just outside melee range. Getting too far lowers dmg a little bit, getting right up next to the mob hurts dmg a lot. I've heard the farther you get away with bow, the more dmg you do. Havent heard anything about gun yet.

[Drogen_Shomuro]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

While expermenting with an *xbow* in Sauromongue, it felt like as long as you were a little bit further than melee range, you'd be able to do full damage. Standing at this point or max shooting range yields nearly the same damage, so you don't need to be real precise. It's still fairly easy to be a trick partner, since the mob will only move 2-3 steps to get to you.

Point blank seemed to be 75%ish of max dmg.

Interestingly enough, my throwing weapon seemed to do the opposite. Max dmg at point blank, 75% dmg or so at a distance.

IMO this update was not meant to nerf rangers, it was meant to make all the less-desirable jobs more important. This is because:
-Rangers are probably better suited to pld tanks now because better hate control will allow a rng to achieve max dmg. The changes to utsusemi support this. This makes paladins more desirable, given the fact that rangers will still outdamage any other DD on a typical exp mob.
-Although SATA is still possible with rangers, it's a little bit more difficult, making all the /thf DD seek different partners other than a ranger. In the case of a Light SC, this would mean dragoons, warriors, and samurai, which are possibly the most underrated DD in the game.

It used to be that the most desired setup (for a traditional, balanced PT) would be nin, rng, drk, xxx, xxx, xxx. The ranger would pull hate easily at point blank range allowing the drk to SATA WS to the nin, giving the nin all the hate he needed for the fight. Now, we have to mix it up a little. Trade in a ranger's damage for better hate control so you can keep the nin tank? Or maybe take some down time between chains to accomodate having a pld tank, and maintain your high rangeresque damage?

I can't emphasize enough that rangers will still outdamage other jobs most of the time; they just have to adjust a little bit to do so.

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Double Post Edited:
On a side note, it feels like almost everything done by SE is to promote team work. FFXI did not have a pvp system. The hellish-experiences of Valkurm dunes, SJ quest, Genkai 1... all of these force you to work with others in order to progress. It may suck, but if you're a true FFXI player, you've made some damn good friends in the process. Some people have attributed this to the asian culture in which camaraderie and "the group" mean more than the individual.

In the context of this update, Rangers have been made even more team dependant than before. Previously, rangers only needed a few bard songs to maximize their potential. Couple this with the fact that rangers are the top DD in the game, and you can see why many people resort to ranger spamming when they want to make things dead. "Why go through the trouble of skillchaining? We'll just spam Sidewinder and do the same amount of damage!"

Teamwork is more than just dmg_01 + dmg_02 = total damage. Teamwork should mean that by working together, your group becomes greater than the sum of its parts. This patch brings the game one step in that direction. If a ranger wants to achieve his full potential, he'd better have a solid team to keep that mob still.

All of you that say "blah blah blah is better blah blah blah sucks..." It shouldn't matter how one DD compares to another! The point *should* be that no matter how good you are as an individual, you will become even better in a well-balanced team.

/endrant... sorry^^

[peacemaker]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

I didn't have a chance to test it first hand last night because of Dynamis, but these are some of the results from 2ch:

弓：ウォー+1　D66 隔524　(Ｄ/隔　0.126)
射：ヘヴィ+1　D35 隔280　(Ｄ/隔　0.125)
銃：デラックスカービン　D32 隔600　(Ｄ/隔　0.053)

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弓：約315(71.1%) 　約443(100%) 　約393(88.7%)
射：約220(70.5%) 　約312(100%) 　約281(90.0%)
銃：約247(81.8%) 　約276(91.4%) 　約302(100%)

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According to the test, for those who can't read Japanese, for bow and crossbow, medium range is where you can deal optimal damage, for gun you need to stand farther away. I hold no responsibility for these numbers until I can test it out in-game myself, these are for reference only.

[Xythalia]

Re: RNG Post Patch: first account

According to the test, for those who can't read Japanese, for bow and crossbow, medium range is where you can deal optimal damage, for gun you need to stand farther away. I hold no responsibility for these numbers until I can test it out in-game myself, these are for reference only.

I take it by medium range, that's probably the optimal range to successfully fire off a WS from a distance without mob being too far and dropping down to 0 TP?

Good job with the find. ^^