Just how bad are rangers vs. HNM's

[KamaAina]

Is it impossible for a Ranger to be included in an HNM hunting party? I mean we can't miss more then a DRK. And Peircing Arrow ignores defense like Spirit's Within.

How bad is it for Rangers end game.


Oh and also since many players level off of undead later in the game how do Rangers do it? Are there good alternatives?

Just what is it like being a ranger in the level 70-75 range?

[JayblahX]

Taken from TheBruce in the End Games jobs thread:

Ranger damage on HNM's is very consistent. Obviously they aren't doing what they normally do against exp monsters. But it is quite noticeable considering a ranger attacking without barrage or sidewinder will still draw agro from me during fights.

Don't get me wrong, other jobs end game are very useful. Sam's for unlimited spirits within, dragoons who can actually superjump King Behemoths Meteor (our drg has done this about 15 times after using a sw and lived to tell about it), shit even beastmasters are disgusting at hnm's. Our lil taru bst's pet does more damage than anyone else at the raid.

But the thing is this. Rng's/Blms and Mnks to a certain extent can be put in any situation and still do consistent damage. Whereas other classes are only useful in certain situations. You need the ability to either gain tp on the side than spirits within the hnm or be able to bypass the defense with bruteforce. Our darks like i said earlier can basically just attack straight up with their scythe's because their attack/str is through the roof. Both are elvaan. One of our darks did a 600 dmg spiral hell on fafnir, heh i couldn't get agro off him after that, but it was worth it. But try that same strat against KB and you'll have a very different outcome. Darks are basically relegated to tractoring and getting a spirits within in.

To answer the question on thieves. Honestly I'm not exactly sure what squaresoft wants these to do endgame. Daggers do basically 0 on hnm's, just like swords (you need a weapon with through the roof damage to do any sort of pain) so their usefulness is very very limited. Also there is basically no sneak/trick on tanks with most of these considering they usually have a huge cone aoe attack, and even if trick was needed a dark doing a 700 spiral hell will be much more useful than a thief doing a 100 evisceration.

I don't know, honestly the end game is very fun, having so many different strats that can be implemented makes it appealing. But the nerf of most melee classes is pretty lame, it seems mages, whm/blm/rdm/brd have always been the favored jobs in this game from day 1.

But I hope I haven't persuaded people to not go the job they want, playing other mmo's I know that all jobs will be nerfed/upgraded at any given time so its best to just give it time. A new expansion is coming out and new abilities/strats will obviously be introduced

Seems like Rangers do quite well. :sweat:

[lvsocom]

Re: Just how bad are rangers vs. HNM's

Since your first question was answered already...

Originally posted by KamaAina
Just what is it like being a ranger in the level 70-75 range?

Judging by the AH, expensive. :p

[KamaAina]

heh what job isn't....I am about to spend 15 million on my monk - scorpion harness, peacock charm, crosscounters, (those one +kick hidden stat boots, etc...(but I might save it if I decide to go ranger)

one that thing that almost upsets me is how many rangers there are now at the mid level range. I mean being a ranger used to mean something (that you were filthy rich hehe) now everyone and their grandmother is a ranger . Oh well they will burn out soon I hope.

[greysenn]

And there are enough of them that are lousy to make you stand out if you get good gear, know how to pull, and know how to control hate. I think you probably don't have anything to worry about.

Now is when the cost kicks in tho, we shall see..

[KamaAina]

Yeh except for when they have better gear then you . I ran into two rangers my level rng/nin who had dual hawkers knives...

dont get me wrong I am into great gear but 100k more for +1 RA and +1 AGI isn't really worth it I have one (left over from the two I had when I leveled ranger before) and I will get another maybe a +1 when I sell all my monk stuff. But I also have to conserve a little gil for arrows and stuff....

also even though there are so many rangers the supply for equipment and ranger gear is really low and is causing an increase in price ; ;. I have my friend to make me scorpion arrows but like for instance I have been able to find only one Horn +1 ring in like two weeks. (and I payed 20k more then it was worth)

[nekote]

WOW 15 mil! must be easy to make money in Asura!

[KamaAina]

Hmmm was not anymore though which is why I am trying to conserve a little gil. Now the mines are flooded with people, the good farming locations are packed, all the good gil quests are full, and there is no way I am going to start crafting lol. On a good day I used to be able to make 100k in a couple hours easily. Now I am lucky to pull that in over a 6 hour mining session (people are even beggining to make bots to camp the mining spots 24 hours a day blech some people). I am starting up fishing, it is NPC based and so the other people can't ruin my fun :p

Oh and I didn't have the 15 mil lol, I was saving up for it. With all my monk, ninja (lvl 20 gear), ranger gear I am not as rich as I would like to be =(.

[lvsocom]

I've been getting pt invites lately, from ppl that started pt's before I was in, when my flag wasn't up.. Makes me feel good, that I stood out from other rangers ^^.

[greysenn]

Hawkers are a great deal if you can get them for 100k. Considering the stupid emp hairpin is like 250 and does almost the same thing. After you get your basic +1 gear (bow, rings, earrings etc), hawkers are the most cost effecient upgrade for acc for a while. (sadly)

[nekote]

Hawkers is way better than emp hairpin. I don't think emp is needed for a rng at all. Only thing good is the AGI+3 and hawkers has AGI+2 and ranged accuracy +11.

[voodoo]

back to your original question..
rng are fantastic against some HNMs and useless against others. Good examples of this are behemoth and simurgh (although these are low-level HNMs).

a PT member calculated total dmg on behemoth once, myself and 2nd ranger were 1st and 2nd with the 3 thfs coming in behind. Behemoth is easy to hit, and you can get great dmg on him.

simurgh on the other hand a rng is useless against, as it's nearly impossible to hit it with ranged attacks.

rng also make themselves useful against HNMs with status arrows and bolts (i.e. defence down, attack down etc) and shadowbind (and not just for pulling).

So, in short, rng are wanted and sometimes needed in HNM fights, but like most melee jobs their spot is sometimes better filled by another job (and sometimes not).

[Ru-Kenshin]

Bad in HNM hunting??

I don't know if it's just me, but we kick ass...

Just recently me and a party of others around my level (lvl 59) took on Bloodtear Baldurf. The only other melee was a level 60 DRG, and he was post to tank... But that didn't work with me there, I ended up just going all out and shot every chance I had.

I tanked it the whole time, and even with Max HP and MP down which brought my health down to 250, we still kicked its ass. It was only doing about 50-70 damage a hit, and maybe up to 80 with Mighty Strikes.

I shot off 4 Sidewinders and one Barrage, it was a pretty easy fight. Not to be brag (just to prove a point), but honestly I think I delt about 70%-80% of the damage. And, I hardly missed.

RNG's definately are useful in HNM fights.


Then, not only that, but I've also seen a battle against the HNM Roc (very high evasion), and the party had 2 RNG's in it. They both were hitting more than 60%-70% of the time and their Sidewinders hit 50% of the time, and were again the big damage dealers.

As I said before, we kick HNM ass. :D

[Izual]

Those aren't really considered hnm's anymore though. Technically they are, but not in the sense that they're difficult to kill. 3-4 people could take down Roc, and a rdm could probably solo bloodtear Against the much harder hnm's, rangers have some trouble. But then, so do melees in a lot of situations.

[Densetsu]

Hmmm, here is a wonder insight from a ranger who has fought most HNMs..

We fought Fafnir, King Behe, Aspi and on the low end, Roc, Simu, Serket, Aqui, Pelican, Bune.....
As a RNG/NIN, pound for pound My damage is exceptional. each arrow hits between 80-300 and on aspi about 40-80 but that was still alot,depending on what we are fighting. Best senario is Fafnir, once bard sang range acc songs on me, and i put on dusk pants, I was 2 man skillchaining with 2 warriors and a darkknight. I was able to keep up TP with 3 people. My dmg if averaged would have been 2 times as much to one warrior, and 3-4 times as much as our drk. But due to Hate, the rols as RNG can More of a burden than a blessing in these type of fights. While I was dealing steady dmg to Faf, his hate would switch to me something terrible, hitting me several hits of about 300-500 per hit. Not to mention just readying barrage is automatic "Oh, Mr ranger think your gonna hit me with that huh??", really caused me some turn away and hope he forgets about me. our Ls is getting used to having rangers in PT and there are prepared, and look to our HP and keep us healed, which allows us to go ahead and let free with dmg, tankers also recognizing us, and doing an outstanding job getting the hate back.
So this is just personal exp, but I know many JP who's Ls fully utilize rangers in ALL there HNM battles, and some say for one particular HNM, you can not win with out a few rangers in the alliance.
In closing, Rangers rock, get a good bow, lvl up gun and get a rapid crossbow for hunting, your gonna need much gil to be effective. Not bragging, but just FYI, in my WS list, with dagger equiped, I log 15 different WS and can solo make lvl 3 light renkei with SAM subbed. Gotta love being a Ranger, Kiss the rings!