Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

[Sabaron]

This is just a teaser...not much data--basically, in response to PUP naysayers and elitists who crop up every now and again.
I was just in a PT in Qufim that happened to have a PUP. I parsed a few (3) fights and came up with these results:
[CODE]1 - The Greater Pugil
Player Total DMG % Melee Spell Skill Effect M Hit %
Puppet 134 19.48 134 0 0 0 100
AnonGuy1 68 9.88 68 0 0 0 100
AnonGuy2 54 7.85 54 0 0 0 100
PUP 150 21.8 150 0 0 0 100
Sabaron 166 24.13 166 0 0 0 100
War/Nin 116 16.86 116 0 0 0 100
Totals 688 100 688 0 0 0 100
2 - The Clipper
Player Total DMG % Melee Spell Skill Effect M Hit %
PUP 53 14.89 53 0 0 0 100
Sabaron 160 44.94 160 0 0 0 100
AnonGuy2 22 6.18 22 0 0 0 100
WAR/NIN 57 16.01 57 0 0 0 100
Puppet 38 10.67 38 0 0 0 100
AnonGuy1 26 7.3 25 0 0 1 100
Totals 356 100 355 0 0 1 100
3 - The Greater Pugil
Player Total DMG % Melee Spell Skill Effect M Hit %
PUP 144 19.07 137 0 0 7 100
AnonGuy2 100 13.25 100 0 0 0 100
WAR/NIN 125 16.56 125 0 0 0 100
Sabaron 243 32.19 235 0 0 8 100
AnonGuy1 35 4.64 35 0 0 0 100
Puppet 108 14.3 108 0 0 0 100
Totals 755 100 740 0 0 15 100
[/CODE]
I was BLU/DRK and being a bit conservative with my spells so I could throw a Healing Breeze if necessary as the WHM was continually running low on mana. This was a 21-22 PT on Qufim Island. I realize this is early game stuff, but the PUP significanly outdid me and I've got Capped Sword, Capped Blue Magic, DRK Sub (+10 ATK), eating Rice Dumplings, 2x Courage Rings, Spike Necklace, Bone Earring +1 x 2, etc....basically all mortgaged on DD. I do not know what attachments the puppet had on--it was a ValorEdge. PUP's star has definitely risen.
EDIT: Well the table looks just awful... I'll summarize:
Neither the puppet nor the Puppetmaster himself out-damaged me. The puppet did more damage than the Puppetmaster. The total combined damage from the pair together exceeded my damage by a significant amount (around 50% overall). The Puppetmaster/Puppet combination was relatively ineffective against Clippers (possibly most High Def Mobs).
I would've liked to have seen a comparison vs. a traditional DD, especially a BLM. I'm sure a PUP can't outperform a BLM at high output, but I'd like to see how well they perform. The party was ok; had a bit of trouble keeping hate off the WHM, and the WAR/NIN tank (no Utsusemi of course... was using /NIN for DW Axe) was taking a lot of damage (low orange/red frequently). It was one of the more unusual parties I've been in recently--two of the guys were /anon...
If you parse, I'd like to see some more PUP parses stacked against formidable DD's like BLM, SAM, THF, DRK, RNG, etc. I'm particularly interested in performance at various level ranges or with different puppets--keeping in mind I'm looking for more of a DD PUP rather than a utility/tank PUP.
I turned the parser on unfortunately near the end of the party (which didn't last more than 30 minutes anyway, unfortunately)... I was hoping to collect more data but it just wasn't in the cards.

[EDIT ADD]:

Hmmm... My parser isn't listing my spells.... Either I wasn't out parsed or my spells have been thrown in with my melee damage... I'll have to see if there's a more recent update (post BLU) to the parser...

Nope... Spyle Parser most current version 6.7.1...

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

I remember those times from parsing my parties as pup at those levels. From levels 10-55 i was the absolute undisputed biggest DD of my party. I started to become outdamaged sometimes after that, but that was before they added the third tier attachments through enms. I didn't even have all my tier 2 attachments at that time. Pup is not mnk for a reason. Otherwise it would be mnk with a pet which would make the original obsolete.. I think the coolest thing about pup was that i have yet to encounter any enemy who's damage weakness i could not exploit. I punched bones and beastmen, slashed spiders and many other mobs, nuked crabs and worms, and sniped birds and other things weak to piercing damage.

[Kitalrez]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

I punched bones and beastmen, slashed spiders and many other mobs, nuked crabs and worms, and sniped birds and other things weak to piercing damage.

I'm with you right up til the slashing DMG part. Which body/attachment do we have that does that damage type? I thought Valoredge and Harlequin were both blunt. Not criticizing, just trying to get better.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

I would've liked to have seen a comparison vs. a traditional DD, especially a BLM. I'm sure a PUP can't outperform a BLM at high output, but I'd like to see how well they perform.

If you parse, I'd like to see some more PUP parses stacked against formidable DD's like BLM, SAM, THF, DRK, RNG, etc. I'm particularly interested in performance at various level ranges or with different puppets--keeping in mind I'm looking for more of a DD PUP rather than a utility/tank PUP.

I've never seen a BLM as top DD at Qufim level--at least, not one which did not keep getting hit and became MP sponge.

BLU on juice should be a top contender as well, but I haven't parsed a good one at those levels, yet, while SAM (which I did level and parse) has to push much harder to get the top damage numbers. DRG, RNG, and THF edge out DRK's as well as SAM's, usually.

Traditional top DD's at those levels are: DRG, RNG, and THF (with right weapon and party support). Of which, DRG has the easiest time getting the top numbers--just keep wyvern alive between timer and use Jump a lot.

If a PUP can keep up with a decent DRG or even just come close, then that'll be more than good enough.

The party was ok; had a bit of trouble keeping hate off the WHM, and the WAR/NIN tank (no Utsusemi of course... was using /NIN for DW Axe) was taking a lot of damage (low orange/red frequently).

That means it's a bad party, with at least a bad tank. There's no getting around that. >_>

Hmmm... My parser isn't listing my spells.... Either I wasn't out parsed or my spells have been thrown in with my melee damage... I'll have to see if there's a more recent update (post BLU) to the parser...

Nope... Spyle Parser most current version 6.7.1...

Spyle's parser is outdate, and incompatible with the Oct. 18th's update. (It ignores all your spell and WS damages, and more.) Try Tazz's parser, which is an update of Spyle's, currently at version 7.0.5.

http://members.cox.net/tazzy_parser/

The "effects" numbers from Blaze Spikes and En-spells, etc. are still not working, but meh, much better than attempting to parse using older versions.

[Liquidedust]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

[EDIT ADD]:

Hmmm... My parser isn't listing my spells.... Either I wasn't out parsed or my spells have been thrown in with my melee damage... I'll have to see if there's a more recent update (post BLU) to the parser...

Nope... Spyle Parser most current version 6.7.1...

As said Spyle's parser basically doesn't work at all anymore since it only parses melee hits due to the new log format from S-E.

So all spells, weaponskills and additional effects are all ingored by spyle 6.7.1 version.

So recommendation is to pick up Tazzy's version of it (which also is barebones and without the IGE adds)

[Karinya]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

The two anon guys were doing absolutely terrible damage - I wonder if they were even DD jobs.

Regardless, it's nice to see that PUP is stronger than the naysayers think (at least at low levels). Heck, the PUP's *personal* damage beat the WAR/NIN two fights out of three.

As Kairos points out, if you're going to fight a lot of crabs, it might be better to deactivate and reconfigure as Stormwaker, although at that low a level you might not have the option.

WAR/NIN is a pathetic excuse for a tank at any level below 74. You probably would have been better off subbing WAR and tanking yourself - at pre-chainmail levels, a BLU with cocoon and attack food has higher defense than a WAR with defense food, and if the WAR isn't going to spam boosts for hate, he won't be able to keep up with the hate generation of a BLU/WAR either.

[Raydeus]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

From what I've seen PUP has always been a good DD up to lvl 35ish, after that it's all free fall till they hit the ground.

I do hope the recent changes improved that but I doubt it.

[Sabaron]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

BLU on juice should be a top contender as well..

I do juice, but as I said, I was afraid we we're going to bite it so I was being conservative. I had to spam Helldive/Bludgeon/Head Butt every so often to pull hate off (it wasn't difficult to take hate from the tank, but she would just voke as soon as it turned away) since I didn't bring WAR sub and the PUP had to use Puppet Voke to keep the the monsters from creaming the "tank" or WHM.

That means it's a bad party, with at least a bad tank. There's no getting around that. >_>

I was being nice, I suppose.

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

From what I've seen PUP has always been a good DD up to lvl 35ish, after that it's all free fall till they hit the ground.

I do hope the recent changes improved that but I doubt it.

with all the recent changes and attachments added, the job should hold up now until 70-75 with some work and whatever they're giving us next version update. I did not personally notice a drop in damage until fighting robber crabs in the 50's, but i was right up there in damage again as soon as we started fighting colibris. The job does much better in VT chaining parties instead of IT and overcamping parties.

Edit: i think the deciding factor seems to be how many attachments and which attachments the puppetmaster has as well as how well they customize thier automoton.

[Lmnop]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

even though I know about 4% of PUP, I can tell you what's wrong with the new attachments...

First and foremost, you can get them @level 1. Here's to being incredible at level 10 and being the same at level 75... I could have Scale Mail +1 @level 10 and feel bad ass and wear it all the way to 75. I'd doubt people would like that.

2nd, they drop from the new Assault-esque battles, apparently. Even though their droprate isn't horrible, it's still pretty dumb. From the (very very very few) numbers I've seen, it looks like each part'll have around a 5% drop rate. but there were enough parts added that you'll get an attachment to drop every 3rd run or so.

[Sabaron]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

The new PUP attachments are running at 3mil-10mil on Asura last I checked--far beyond the reach of a newbie's wallet and a significant hurt to even the wealthy character.

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Outparsed by a Puppetmaster. (Hooray!)

on caitsith none of the new attachments have gone over 800k yet. I have the optical fiber, dynamo, reactive shield, missing the turbo charger. All of the puppetmaster attachments are very good at any level, but anyone who has those attachments at level one is just plain overpowered. When i started playing pup there were only 1 tier of attachments and I was able to easily solo to 25. Most pups i know now since the tier 2 and 3's were added soloed thier way up to30-35. I think certain attachments need to scale though, like the stoneskin one. Most of the attachments give a +% bonus to the automoton or a -% to the enemy's advantages so they scale very nicely.