Are all rapiers piercing weapons?

[bside]

Re: Are all rapiers piercing weapons?

The only real way to test it is by putting the weapon in the hands of a job class that can also use other similar weapons with the damage rated listed through the hidden effect. In this manner, if you see consistency with the numbers with each increasing damage weapon, then you can safely assume that the company sword has a hidden latent effect.

Right now, all I see is (a) a possible damage increase or (b) a possible DEFENSE reduction on mob.

Best way is to test it on a STEELSHELL with party members whacking away with it as well and see if their damage also increases.

In case you don't know the tested formula to calculate the melee damage, take a look at this; http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/index.p...hysical_Damage

As far as I could find this one best describes in detail how the damages are calculated, in English.


Of course, this formula is not an official one released by s-e, but it's been tested for a number of times, and outcomes have supported it, such as the result of the linked thread. While it could be changed at any time in the future, it is currently considered and treated as the valid and reliable formula.


BTW, in the linked thread, they're saying that in theory the capped damage is 204 for a weapon w/ D54 (Company Sword in a party of 6), but they forgot to take into account that even when the hidden effect kicks in, Company Sword's Weapon Rank stays the same, thus the max critical damage when in a party of 6 is;

{54 + (8 + floor(46 / 9) } * 3.0 = 201

[Maju]

Re: Are all rapiers piercing weapons?

According to the "Weapons and Armors Thread Lv58" on 2ch (actually one of the 2ch-compatibles), Company Fleuret and Mensur Epee, both added on 7/25 patch, do NOT do piercing damages, although both are of Fleuret-type graphics.

That's strange. I tested the fleuret on both lesser colibris and fomors and its perfomance seemed much closer to that of the company sword against the colibris. Against fomors it was way inferior to the sword.

I didn't actually parse anything, so perhaps I was just imagining things.

[Releena]

Re: Are all rapiers piercing weapons?

Hardly a news. It's been tested a number of times for its validity and reliability, and long known that Company Sword's hidden effect kicks in when in a party of 3 or more; +2 to DMG for 3, +4 for 4 +6 for 5, and +8 for 6, thus not activated when in a party of 2 players.

I've heard that before, but every other source lists it as a simple +2 damage per party member, including the wiki. Thanks the for the information though.

The only real way to test it is by putting the weapon in the hands of a job class that can also use other similar weapons with the damage rated listed through the hidden effect. In this manner, if you see consistency with the numbers with each increasing damage weapon, then you can safely assume that the company sword has a hidden latent effect.
Right now, all I see is (a) a possible damage increase or (b) a possible DEFENSE reduction on mob.
Best way is to test it on a STEELSHELL with party members whacking away with it as well and see if their damage also increases.

We know how to determine maximum damage, and it is 100% reproducible. You can hack away at low level mobs for a while if you want to prove it to yourself and I did just that when I first saw the data on maximum damage.

Company Sword's extra damage proves without a shadow of a doubt that there is a hidden effect.

[bside]

Re: Are all rapiers piercing weapons?

I've heard that before, but every other source lists it as a simple +2 damage per party member, including the wiki. Thanks the for the information though.

Some informations available in English, including those on wiki, are originally the works of Japanese players/websites, especially those rather old ones as NA players obviously had little informations in their hands back when it was released for NA region.

Consequently, I'd say it's very likely possible that some of them were either mistranslated, took them as they were at that time and haven't updated even JP websites have, or were rather words-of-mouth from some JP players who didn't know about them correctly but taken as truth by whoever delivered those words to NA community.

That's strange. I tested the fleuret on both lesser colibris and fomors and its perfomance seemed much closer to that of the company sword against the colibris. Against fomors it was way inferior to the sword.
I didn't actually parse anything, so perhaps I was just imagining things.

Honestly speaking, I wondered, too. There has been no exceptions to fleuret-kind swords to do piercing damages, but they suddenly added 2 of them that do otherwise.

Although I do trust those threads on 2ch (if any posts there happen to be wrong, there usually are countering replies posted very quickly, one reason why I trust them), Company Fleuret was only 30k so I grabbed one and gave it a shot.


Against Tiny Mandragoras in E. Sarutabaruta, that are weak to piercing damages, I tested 3 weapons.

1. Martial Anelace, DMG 39, not piercing
2. Rsv. Cpt. Lance, DMG 69, piercing
3. Company Fleuret, DMG 36, attribute to be tested

(didn't wanna bother grabbing other DMG 36 weapons)

Formula used is;

Max Crit Damage = {D + (8 + floor(D/9) ) } * 3.0

where D stands for the DMG of each weapons.

Also, piercing damages gain 25% bonus on top of that, as it's against Mandragoras.


Therefore, suspected maximum critical damages for each weapons are;

1. Martial Anelace: 153
2. Rsv. Cpt. Lance: 315 (252 * 1.25)
3. Company Fleuret: 144 if NOT piercing, and 180 if piercing

Note that minimum piercing critical damage for Company Fleuret exceeds that of non-piercing, thereby making an outcome of 144 a enough result to determine.


The 1st attached picture shows Martial Anelace, w/ crit damage of 153. Likewise, the 2nd one shows 315. Both outcomes are as suspected, and prove that piercing damage bonus is indeed added against them.


Now, in the 3rd picture, if it's 180, it's piercing. If 144, it's not.

Result came out as 144. This damage is impossible if it's piercing, as the minimum piercing critical damage exceeds 144. This also proves that there is no DMG-increasing nor decreasing effect for solo, while there could be other unknown factors that could affect otherwise.


I don't know why they added such a non-piercing fleuret-kind weapon, but maybe it has some hidden effects that are yet to be discovered. In the meantime, we know that it's not piercing for the circumstance under which the test is conducted.

[Releena]

Re: Are all rapiers piercing weapons?

Some informations available in English, including those on wiki, are originally the works of Japanese players/websites, especially those rather old ones as NA players obviously had little informations in their hands back when it was released for NA region.
Consequently, I'd say it's very likely possible that some of them were either mistranslated, took them as they were at that time and haven't updated even JP websites have, or were rather words-of-mouth from some JP players who didn't know about them correctly but taken as truth by whoever delivered those words to NA community.

The information you shared seems correct. I meant that this information was new to most of us since the same old incorrect information is still being spread everywhere.