Too much Vit and not enough hate!

[piroko]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

You could cure whoever's getting punded on too.

[Djonma]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Yeah, I always do that, Piroko, though said warrior had shadows and wasn't taking damage.

[csBahamut]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Something else you can try is to wait to cast flash. Provoke, wait for the mob to hit you a few times, then flash and cure. If you would flash right away, then say your WHM flashes right after, your next provoke will probably be up before you can cure any damage.

Another thing that needs to be taken care of is no big nukes or weaponskills before the second voke. This is a biggie for DD to follow. It doesn't matter who the tank is, they'll lose hate. Damage > provoke. Damage is the king of hate. Most of the good BLMs I party with are stilling resting MP by the time I get to my second provoke. That's because they went nuke crazy at the end when I had hate built up and could handle it.

Something else you can try is to pop on one +acc ring to help hit a little more often. Some people thing it's stupid for a PLD to try to do any damage, but even those little hits will help a lot. Especially once you start getting +emnity gear. Again, damage is hate king (cures are effectively damage type hate).

[bside]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Something else you can try is to pop on one +acc ring to help hit a little more often. Some people thing it's stupid for a PLD to try to do any damage, but even those little hits will help a lot. Especially once you start getting +emnity gear. Again, damage is hate king (cures are effectively damage type hate).

just to give more insights so others can understand what csBahamut said better.

while dmg from attacks/ws'/magics, Cures to recover HP, and abilities such as Provoke all contribute to gaining hate, not all of them just "build up."

job abilities that PLD's would use to gain hate, such as Provoke and Sentinel, along w/ the magic Flash, should be considered as hate "boosters," not "builders." they all increase the level of hate, but the hate boosted by them rapidly decreases as the time passes by.

on the other hand, hate generated from giving dmg to mobs, and Cures to recover HP (as csBahamut said "cures are effectively damage type hate"), does "build up," while they do decrease when u get hit, and also as the time pasees by though it happens very slowly as compared to the hate "boosted" by JA's.


u can think of JA's and Flash as nitro for the insanely-tuned car, whereas dmg and cures r the performance parts, such as better exhaust. once u use the nitro, it'll run like a rocket, but when u use up the nitro, u know what happens. but the performance parts stay there, and as u can throw more of them to the car, u can expect the better performace all the time, though their performace level naturally decreases as the time goes by.


having said that, i second the csBahamut's quoted opinion. for some reason many PLD's think they can just forget about the attack, and do whatever they can to increase DEF and VIT, even if that means sacrificing the least needed level of attacks. under limited occasions such as HNM tanking, that may end up to be a better option, but in normal parties, it usually doesn't work out well. not to mention the dmg from PLD's do contribute to faster killing, even though they may appear to be small, thereby helping out the whole party.

i'm not saying u should just go completely DD gears and play DD role, as seen in merit parties. little more ACC and ATK in lieu of some of ur VIT and DEF would end up to help u "build" more hate, that's all i'm saying.

[Aeni]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Something else you can try is to pop on one +acc ring to help hit a little more often. Some people thing it's stupid for a PLD to try to do any damage, but even those little hits will help a lot. Especially once you start getting +emnity gear. Again, damage is hate king (cures are effectively damage type hate).

Actually, this is what drives effective blink tanking by NINs. They need to engross themselves in dealing damage. They have to keep up on par with the melees to stay on top of the hate list and then make sure they're effectively avoiding taking damage. Unlike PLDs, NINs can't cure IV themselves for one big uber hate spike and thus need to build hate up in minute quantities. Having ranged attacks and being able to spam it however possible along with elemental enfeebling generally helps.

I hope more PLDs can see this point. However the OP is doing a lot of things right. Some PLDs I've partied with bleed HP like sliced artery and lose hate faster than an orbital re-entry.

[Keon]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

I have Pigeon Earring and Mercenary's Earring, by the way, not Agi, being a Taru.

I am 44 Taru PLD on Hades and I try to mix up Shield Skill, VIT, AGI, and Enmity. I tend to stay away from the +HP gear. I feel HP gear is almost a waste. I rather take AGI+3 then HP+20. As Tarus we have enough MP to solve our HP woes. The current gear I use is:

Iron Musketeers Arme VIT+2
Medieval Collar VIT+2
Royal Squires Chainmail DEX+1
Kampfhentzes VIT+2
Sword Belt+1 Atk+12
Royal Squires Breeches DEX+1 AGI+1
Kamptschuhs VIT+3
High Breath Mantle Enmity+5
Mermaid Ring Enmity+2
Verve/Alacity Ring VIT+3/AGI+3
Drone Earring AGI+3
Buckler Earring Shield+3
Light Buckler Shield+5
Honor Sword VIT+2 MND+2

This set up has worked wonders for keeping hate. My VIT is high enough to help with defense while my AGI and Shield help with blocks and TP gain. The added attack helps deal that extra dmg for hate and the enmity needs no explaining. Top that with Flash/Provoke/C2 and the Mob is all yours.

[DakAttack]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

First time I've ever heard of a Taru not taking enough damage!

[Saerik]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

Sounds like you may need to get a few variations to your gear, most gear is situational and having a few alternatives will help you greatly. For example on weaker attack mobs where you are holding up fine and not having MP woes then switch in some attack/acc or enmity in the place of some defense, and possibly vice versa. HP is all well and good but in some situations you simply don't need alot, unless the mob has a particularly nasty TP attack (i.e Sickle Slash) then getting 1 shotted isn't going to be a risk and so again switching HP out for something else will work well.

[tdh]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

My WAR statics with a Taru PLD. And in the late 30's to mid 40's he was having some issues keeping hate, and was often Covering me. He was going all out into VIT too, and just wasn't taking enough damage to Cure to keep up with me in the Enmity list. I stopped using Sneak Attack save for weapon skill, and if we partied with a THF, we tried to make sure we could skillchain at the START of each fight to insure I didn't pull hate again.

At Lv.51 I've moved over to Axe full time, so there aren't any 500~700dmg Sneak Attack Sturmwinds to pull hate and things are fine. But there are still times that I do pull hate on "Squishy" mobs due to my Acc+47 + Sushi, meaning I land a lot of hits. (45~55dmg each Axe, and I seem to Double Attack like a fiend.)

My little Hometaru started to tweak his gear. To lower his VIT a bit only to bone up on some Attack, and he had a better time at it. So you may have to do the same thing. Either way, you may still find that Sickle Slash will still one shot you, no matter how much VIT you pile on.

[Armando]

Re: Too much Vit and not enough hate!

My little Hometaru started to tweak his gear. To lower his VIT a bit only to bone up on some Attack, and he had a better time at it. So you may have to do the same thing. Either way, you may still find that Sickle Slash will still one shot you, no matter how much VIT you pile on.

With the advent of Blue Magic, I realized why this is. Sickle Slash is an attack that may crit based on TP (something which an EXP mob will NEVER lack.) Critical hits add +1 to your Attack/Defense multiplier, so even with extremely high defense, you're going to get hit hard. That doesn't mean you won't get hit for less with more Defense, but that's just the way it is.