PLD Hate Control

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Yeah i mean thats the wonders of refresh at 41 heheh, 4 mp back is a godsend.

So dont worry about flashing more than once a battle really, I usually do even without refresh because its a larger hate spike.

(But it would help if my parties lately would get Rdms, Brds or Cors. Or for the times when we get a Rdm he decides to refresh me.... everyonce in awhile.)

(Also on a side note. Damn you WishMaster3k and your Tarudin Mp)

[Davitron3000]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Why wouldn't you flash more than once? It actually saves you MP while creating a good ammount of enmity... if the enemies miss you don't have to cure for that ammout of HP dmg take, also neither would your healer(making them not get more enmity from curing you).

Agreed. If the mob is still up, and Flash is up, I use it.

[Slip]

Re: PLD Hate Control

(Also on a side note. Damn you WishMaster3k and your Tarudin Mp)

Cursed Taru mp pool! The dev's outta give the rest of us "Taspir" -> Aspir castable only on Taru players since nobody deserves that much mp! (...goes off to drown his mp sorrows in Yag drinks...)

[Keon]

Re: PLD Hate Control

I am a IDIOT! I never thought of using Flash as the lead in. I am used to being on the tank cow path and leading with provoke. That makes much more sense to have the recast time of Flash start to count down as well as grabing the mobs attention.

[PTT]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Wow, times have changed since I was a wee little Paladin. That High Breath mantle would have absolutely rocked if it existed back then, limited enchantment or no.

Davitron3000: Yes, Flash seem to have a 1.5 or 2x further range than provoke, so yes, it can save the puller a hit or two of grief.

Flash is also a tool to use against those infuriating mobs that attack just SLIGHTLY too quickly to get a cure off (Torama in Labyrinth of Onzozo for example). Flash will buy you at least one hit, often two, during which you can land a much needed cure.

Speaking of cure timing, if you're struck during the first 20 percent or so of casting a cure, odds are you won't be interrupted. The second or third hit of a double/triple attack won't interrupt you, no matter the percent, IIRCorrectly. Very helpful to know on some mobs.

About Elvaan Paladins and MP, it is hard toughing it out, until the RDMs start getting refresh, or you get the odd Bard party. Even then, it's a bit of a struggle until you get access to using a dark staff. I imagine Auto-Refresh makes things a good bit easier than when I was there.

I found it was helpful to have my Magna Hands and Boots, starting the fight with them. When I burnt through the extra MP, I had a macro that would switch between the magna and my other armor at the time, which I believe was Eisenhentzes and Eisenschuhs, switching them out again when I rested. By the time you get your AF hands and feet, hopefully you won't need that trick anymore.

Anyway, my Elvaan brothers, it gets better the higher you get up. With all the refreshment options available to you (your RDMs, BRDs, and CORs when applicable), and Refresh Sanction, Auto Refresh... I can honestly throw my MP around with -almost- reckless abandon.

[Davitron3000]

Re: PLD Hate Control

About Elvaan Paladins and MP, it is hard toughing it out, until the RDMs start getting refresh, or you get the odd Bard party. Even then, it's a bit of a struggle until you get access to using a dark staff. I imagine Auto-Refresh makes things a good bit easier than when I was there.

I don't even want to hear it. I don't think I can cast Raise at level 75 without my MP merits...

[WishMaster3K]

Re: PLD Hate Control

ROFL XD

To be fair, he said Elvaan.

Random Fact: Taru SMN at 30 has more MP than Galka ANYTHING at lvl 75.

>.> So that's why Galka's eat Tarus!

Flash is AWSOMe. 25 MP is basically what Cure II is, and I can dodge about 1-2 hits. Also, like said before, you can Flash and Cure easier because they'll miss.

I'd like to tell my WHMs that instead of Curing me, trade off Flash, but I'm not at that level, and WHMs are Tards.

I mean DAMN. That's why I hate PLs. PLs throw off hate so bad

I think in the grand-scheme of Paladiness, we all get hit for the same amount, but it's being able to Cure bomb ourselves that make Taru so overpowered (that's why I'm gonna argue how awsometacular Taru are at PLD, hahaha >.> ).

Maybe if you want better hate control, tell the WHM to only cure you when your at 60% or less? And even then, tell them not to Cure 3. I HATE getting Cure IIIed and having my Cure II heal back less than 30.

But hey, if a WHM is curing less and flashing and letting you cure, that's how PLDs are so awsome. But WHMs hate working hard. That's why they choose WHM -.-.

Auto-Refresh makes PLD so easy, even at 37. I pwn NINs for Hate. They can dodge all they want, but with My MP Pool, halfway into the fight I can stop curing and let my WHM wake up again, and still never lose hate.

Which is why I like mobs that hit hard, so I have more to cure, muhahahahaha.

-Ren
Still Being a Cure Whore.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Random Fact: Taru SMN at 30 has more MP than Galka ANYTHING at lvl 75.

>.> So that's why Galka's eat Tarus!

Anywho, i still love Auto Refresh. Though before they gave me it I was at 39, and could still hold hate like no one else.

My favorite thing I did today was out damaging the war's raging axe with my seraph blade on a constant basis (of course this war on beetles but still, he either sucked, was unlucky, or

"Damn im good"

(Im not sure why i remembered this all the sudden. Just remembering something strange to add I guess.)

and WHMs are Tards.

My god this is true, even after they get flash, Almost everyone I've played with manages to end up casting flash 2 seconds after i cast it, then i tell them wait about 15-20 seconds after I cast it so we can get down a flash cycle.

It never happens...

[Slip]

Re: PLD Hate Control

I don't even want to hear it. I don't think I can cast Raise at level 75 without my MP merits...

Bah! You're a Galka Pld! Ain't nobody dying when you're around unless you got a grudge against them.

I'm still working with the old "Voke 1st -> then Flash" approach after experimenting with the reverse for a while. Reason being, I like to land a Cure 3 early in the fight. If I lead with Flash that buys me 2-3 swings that miss. Add in a good shield block and a parry and that's a loooong time waiting for 180 dmg to come in (or more with Regen on).

What I do instead is Voke first (after running out to "greet" the puller if he looks like he's taking a beating on the way in). I let the mob get in a hit or two and gauge how much damage it's doing. If I've lost the needed 200 or so hp then I Flash right away and follow with Cure III. That takes advantage of the Flash to make the Cure easier to get off. If there's not enough damage after a coupel hits then I'll toss out a JA and then Flash after another hit or two goes by.

Usually a cycle of Voke -> hit, hit, hit -> Flash -> miss -> Cure 3 -> miss will leave me about 8 seconds away from my next Voke. That's not too bad to coast through usually to conserve a bit of mp. Thanks to Haste Flash is usually up at least 1 more time in the fight after that.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Tanking is fun as PLD because you're able to gauge party hate (by being in the mob's face the whole time) and react accordingly.

I dislike NIN tanking because it feels like I'm only reacting to the mob, not really setting the tone. But I guess different strokes for different folks.

Maybe it's the RDM in me, but I love being PLD. (I'm just broke, so it's stuck at 37 >.>)

[Murphie]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Tanking is fun as PLD because you're able to gauge party hate (by being in the mob's face the whole time) and react accordingly.

I dislike NIN tanking because it feels like I'm only reacting to the mob, not really setting the tone. But I guess different strokes for different folks.

Maybe it's the RDM in me, but I love being PLD. (I'm just broke, so it's stuck at 37 >.>)

This is kind of how I looked at things. Also, I hate throwing gil at the mob, so NIN has always been somewhat painful for me.

I loved being a PLD. I love having the mobs attention. I love getting beaten up like that. I guess I just really liked being a hero.

[PTT]

Re: PLD Hate Control

ROFL XD
Which is why I like mobs that hit hard, so I have more to cure, muhahahahaha.

We've got to be the single most masochistic job in Final Fantasy.

"Ooh yeah, hit me harder! I gotta cure my wounds and build hate! You call that a bomb toss?!"

PS: Do not taunt Fairy Ring in Dynamis Valkurm. Even with Darkness Carol and the +14 dark resist on Joyeuse, he killed me in like one Black Mould breath attack ;_;

[Karinya]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Heh, this thread makes me feel like an old fart now. High breath mantles, auto-refresh, eisen gear... bah. None of that stuff was available when I was leveling PLD. I was in the mid-forties before eisen was added. This isn't to say that just because I had to wear chicken armor you should too, but it's really surprising how much the job has changed in the last couple years.

Anyway: I'd say your biggest hate tools are rampart and warcry, except you're too low level to have them yet. So right now it's flash, voke, cure, and when that isn't enough, shield bash. You may sometimes want to save it for its stunning ability though, depending on what you're fighting. It's very useful on BLM-type beastmen or skeletons if you don't have a RDM or they don't land Silence quickly enough, and it can sometimes stop bomb tosses, too.

That reminds me: against some monsters, I won't re-flash as soon as it's available, because I'd rather save it for WS. Weapons for example, you can save your party a ton of damage and irritation by flashing them as soon as they ready Whirl of Rage. Watch them miss 3/4 of the party and lose their TP. You have to be watching for it and not have too much lag, but it's great when it works. Magical attacks like goblin bomb aren't affected, though.

Sentinel doesn't actually *generate* that much hate, but by reducing the damage you take it can reduce the hate and MP usage of your healer. I usually save it for extra-strong mobs (either because of the level or the type of monster, e.g. scorps, pugils, DD-job beastmen).

Don't spam defender in exp. It will weaken your hate holding. Use it for really strong mobs (like the time I tanked golems in moongate at some absurdly early level. Ow.) but, for PLD, it's mostly useful for HNM/Dynamis.

[Murphie]

Re: PLD Hate Control

Heh, this thread makes me feel like an old fart now. High breath mantles, auto-refresh, eisen gear... bah. None of that stuff was available when I was leveling PLD. I was in the mid-forties before eisen was added. This isn't to say that just because I had to wear chicken armor you should too, but it's really surprising how much the job has changed in the last couple years.

When Eisen/Kampf came out I was already past the necessary level for it too, but I ran out and bought some anyway to try it out (used the boots forever).

Things definitely do seem easier hate wise for PLDs these days (the high breath mantle alone amazes me). Too bad so much of the community has adopted such a poor view of PLD tanking for exp.

[PTT]

Re: PLD Hate Control

When the Eisen and Kamph set came out, I was -just- at the right level to equip it (31 or so, I remember first wearing it in Garlaige Citadel). Thankfully, it's such a good set, it didn't matter that it was a few levels out of date. I remember equipping the full set, and showing up to parties to comments of 'Whoa! What kind of armor is that?! That's awesome!' (As not many people had started wearing it).

I was quite the cat's pajamas then ^^ , I enjoyed all the attention.

I still get a few /tells mentioning that it's awesome that my non-dynamis armor matches (Full Adaman set, Koenig Shield, Joyeuse, everything Gold + Bluish-Purple!) , but it was nothing compared to being one of the first Eisen gear wearers.

Good times.

Anyway...

On Shield Bash: Karinya brings up a very useful point: If you're fighting spellchucking mobs, save Shield Bash for when they pull out their super-spells. This is -incredibly- useful and lifesaving if you get into a bones party in Garliage Citadel's basement during your mid-50's. Getting Tornado'd and Earthquake'd and whatever else the Mage Skeletons can do HURTS very much at that level.

Defender: Another useful point. Useful for Dynamis and HNM tanking, Defender can hurt your hate keeping by A) Lowering your damage output to something pitiful, especially on crabs, and B) Can perhaps cause you to take so little damage, that your Cure-hate takes a nosedive. It's situational, but can come in very handy nonetheless.

Finally... the poor view of Paladins is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, we get passed up for the first Melee/Ninja or Ninja/Melee that comes along on most things. On the other hand... When you do get invited, and you do a good job tanking, oddly enough, people will remember you. It's surprising and wonderful at the same time <:O