Switching gear and enmity.

[DakAttack]

Does anybody have any actual proof that switching enmity gear in and out for Provokes and Flash is effective way to hold hate? It was always my assumption that enmity was basically a permanent addition to your hate on the list as long as you wore it, and that switching it in and out doesn't have an effect on hate. I never saw an increased effectiveness with Provoke or Flash itself, it always seemed to work as usual when a Blm or Rng pulled hate, but I always felt it was harder for them to pull hate while I had the gear on. Of course I don't have much to back this up because as a Paladin I don't really switch gear in and out.

Thanks.

[JeanRC]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

you should really switch gear in and out for pld and all other jobs. This enable you to make use of multi gear set and make it better. It does help. I been switching gear for all jobs i played. PLD has gear like enmity, HP, DEF N VIT sets or even accuracy if you want to get tp faster for spirit within ws to help DD a bit + extra hate for it.

[Davitron3000]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

I really can't answer you question or prove anything, but in my opinion if you can wear
+ enmity all the time it has more impact on hate than macroing it in. I always thought
that the enmity affected all of your actions and not just your Provoke and Flashes.

I, like the OP, don't macro a lot of gear in (I used to macro in mp items and then switch
it out after the mp was used, but I haven't done this since lvl 41 when redmages
got refresh). I just bring a bunch of gear and go with what I think will work best,
changing out gear as needed.

If you are a fan of macroing in gear, and you aren't going to wear your + enmity full
time, I don't see how it can hurt to macro it into your Provokes and Flashes.

[Lmnop]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

to sum up what the others have said to answer your question: no, it appears no one has proof one way or the other. It's a hard thing to test and i've seen almost 0 testing on the subject.

It is known, however, that +enmity affects all actions, not just voke (duh).

You have an interesting theory.

the normal theory:
that +/-enmity gear affects every action by that much enmity. So if you're wearing +10 enmity gear, all actions have +10 enmity on them (whether or not that's linear, or a % increase of the original effect). So you'd hit for 50+10, provoke for 200+10, and cure yourself of 90+10 = 370 hate.

Impaction theory:
that +/- enmity gear is a static number applied to your standing on the hate list. So you would hit for 50, provoke for 200, and cure yourself for 90, and then add 10 for enmity gear = 350 hate.

This would mean that every time you took off your enmity gear, you would actually lose enmity. Likewise, if this were true, you would be able to have a mage swap into -enmity gear when they get hate to take temporary refuge under the hate line.

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While an interesting theory, I'm still more inclined to think it's more like theory one (though I think it's % based, as a Greataxe with lots of +enmity seems just as effective as dual wield). The main reason is mages. I think whms with lots of -enmity feel it a lot more when they're doing lots of flashes for crappy war/nins who can't keep their shadows up (that's me, duoing with my WHM friend >.>).

I'd like to hear input from mages and others, for that matter, about enmity -- not about "Impaction, you really should macro in gear."

/point Icemage

I think he'd have something to offer to an enmity debate.

[Raydeus]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

It seems like +emnity gear affects all you actions, and since you only get hate for actions you make, then the longer you keep the +emnity gear on the more actions will be enhanced by it.

[sarlos]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

Just to add further speculation to the fire, I have always understood +Enmity gear as doing two things.

1) Each action produces more Enmity
2) Your Enmity decay rate is lower

I don't have hard proof for these assumptions, only experience. What this means is that, yes, macroing on +Enmity gear for Flash and Provoke will have a slight effect. However, leaving that +Enmity gear on will cause the effects of your hate generation tools to last longer, and will lower the amount of hate lost when monsters hit you.

[qaitakalnin]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

honestly i think it depends on how you feel personally. I personally gear swap for the extra emnity on voke (dont really use it with flash though, course may need to try it). Now currently (lvl42 pld) i only switch out waist and head, will i switch out rings when i get access to mermaid rings, probably, but i certainly wont wear them permanently, i *personally* think that the vit+ or -dmg% is far more valueble to us as plds than constant enmity, the hate+ will help you keep hate, but the vit+ and -dmg% will be of far more use for not getting killed and possible wiping the party.

....anyway, for me i will switch out the hate+ gear (depending on slot, wont switch out the headbad of mp+ and hate+, hehe forgot name) for voke, and now i will even try it with flash, because i believe that it will help with more hate with voke and the other set will help with survival.

[DakAttack]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

I always notice that when the puller brings back an enemy to camp, it always flakes off to attack me, whether I'm standing or resting. This suggests that enmity must have some sort of "idle" effect on hate.

I think an easy way to test my theory would be to aggrevate a monster in a party of two naked players, and have one player slowly equip equipment that adds enmity. I'd think if my theory were correct, or at least part of it, the monster would turn on its own accord to face the player with the increasing amount enmity.

[Djonma]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

Surely it doesn't matter if it affects everything?

If you use +enmity gear for voking, then remove it and put in all your +vit gear, you get a massive hate boost on the voke, and then you get to have all of your lovely vit for being hit.

I guess the question should be whether you lose that enmity when you take the gear off.

[Uiruru]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

Honestly I've always thought that keeping a good amount of enmity on is better then just switching it in for one or two actions while someone who just macros in enmity gear for one or two actions that extra enmity with presumably one help for those one or two actions. But keeping a good amount of enmity on full time that extra enmity will add extra hate to everything your hits your cures your other ja's etc. For these reasons I've never really been a fan of just macroing in enmity for one or two actions.

[sarlos]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

I think an easy way to test my theory would be to aggrevate a monster in a party of two naked players, and have one player slowly equip equipment that adds enmity. I'd think if my theory were correct, or at least part of it, the monster would turn on its own accord to face the player with the increasing amount enmity.

Unless you do something to get on the mob's hate list, equipping gear will have no effect. Resting at any point after the mob has been pulled is enough to do that. Self buffing does the trick as well. You could have +40 Enmity on you, but if you do nothing to get on the mob's hate list, it will never attack you.

[Ellipses]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

Here's how I would test this, if I were of a mind to do so.

Get two PLDs, as close to the same level and race as you can, high enough to survive a good long time against level 1 mobs. Have the same +Enmity gear available to both of them, and have them get naked, except for the Enmity gear on one of them. PLD 1 leaves the Enmity gear on the whole time. PLD 2 leaves it off, but swaps it on (and back off) for a Provoke macro.

Find a level 1 mob (bees outside Bastok, for example) and have PLD 1 Provoke it, followed by PLD 2 a few seconds later. Perform no other actions, and see who the bee ends up hating the most/longest. Kill this bee and find another. Have PLD 2 Provoke it, followed by PLD 1 a few seconds later. Observe.

If +Enmity has an effect on hate over time, the bee should end up hating PLD 1 (the one who left the gear on) in both cases. If it's only on actions, the bee should end up hating whoever Provoked second in both cases. There'll be variations if the PLDs are different levels or races, but enough Enmity gear should be able to cover that.

[Djonma]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

Find a level 1 mob (bees outside Bastok, for example) and have PLD 1 Provoke it, followed by PLD 2 a few seconds later. Perform no other actions, and see who the bee ends up hating the most/longest. Kill this bee and find another. Have PLD 2 Provoke it, followed by PLD 1 a few seconds later. Observe.

Unfortunately the first provoke in a fight gives much more hate than any other provoke.
I learnt this the hard way in valkurm as a pld when people would voke pull.
I couldn't get a mob off them til I'd done a load of extra stuff.

[Ellipses]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

Unfortunately the first provoke in a fight gives much more hate than any other provoke.
I learnt this the hard way in valkurm as a pld when people would voke pull.
I couldn't get a mob off them til I'd done a load of extra stuff.

That's why I'm suggesting PLDs high enough to withstand all the unbridled fury of a level 1 bee for a while. If the +Enmity gear effects hate over time, the bee should eventually turn toward the PLD who leaves it on regardless. It's just a matter of how eventual "eventually" is.

Another option would be to have each PLD stack several Provokes on the bee, and then see how many it takes the other PLD to get hate.

You could always start the fights off with something relatively low-hate (single bare-handed H2H hit from each, pebbles, etc.) and then switch to Provokes, too.

[lionx]

Re: Switching gear and enmity.

If i remember right Provoke is spike hate, meaning that after time it will decrease its hate...whether it goes to 0 or not i have no idea but i remember reading up here about Spke hate and perpetual hate, if you hit the monster then its perpetual, but if you Provoke or Flash it, its spike and decreases over time.