Holy Crap

[Jei]

Re: Holy Crap

yea now that you mentioned stun chance on bash. Drk and Pld shield/weapon bash are just so unreliable.

[Karinya]

Re: Holy Crap

I think it would be interesting to have a "Shield Stance" JA that significantly increases the chance of shield block while it's active; allowing shields to block magic damage; a JA that gives a temporary boost to magic defense (self only, party, or one of each like we already have for phys def) or add a mag.def. effect to Sentinel/Rampart; and possibly a job trait that allows the PLD to recover some MP when hit or when shield blocking (similar to, and probably stacking with, Valor Surcoat's enhanced cover). Auto-Refresh that works identically to SMN's would be boring and take away from the uniqueness of SMN, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be other ways for PLD to recover MP...

An even more radical idea would be Celes's "Runic" ability from FF6, that lets you cancel incoming magic and gain MP from it instead of having it take effect on you (in FF6, you could do it over and over, but in FFXI it would probably have a recast time much longer than its duration; still, I'd love to have that even for one spell every 5 minutes) If it canceled the entirety of a -ga spell, this would be an AWESOME ability, if it only canceled the effect on you and gained MP it would merely be really, really good.

Shield Bash is fine the way it is, though, IMO. Stun that lasts for any significant length of time is very rare, but I interrupt spells with it all the time, and it generates a nice amount of hate. I suppose they *could* drastically lower its recast timer and make it the "PLD provoke"... that would be awesome, but probably too much to ask for.

As much as I love my Koenig Shield, I'll have to point out that some of these changes could be made through the shields themselves, they don't all have to be made as changes to the job. In particular, this could allow different shields for different situations - a shield that can block spells would be better against spellcasting mobs, a shield that gives you MP when you block is good for a long drawn-out fight or a series of fights in rapid succession, a shield with a spikes effect is good against fast attacking mobs, etc. Done this way, the abilities could be much stronger than they would be as job traits, because they're mutually exclusive and only apply when you have those specific shields on.

Either way, most of the other suggestions would benefit a lot from the Shield Stance idea. Adding more effects to blocking makes the decision about when to use Shield Stance that much more interesting... what do you gain from using it now vs. what do you gain from saving it for later.

[Armando]

Re: Holy Crap

Runic would be so freaking awesome even if it were only once every 5 minutes. Imagine Runic'ing Ancient Magic and refilling your MP bar halfway. Probably won't happen, but oh well. Though if we're gonna go into added effect shields, you know what would be really impressive? A shield with a 10 or 20% chance to reflect single-target spells (Ancient Magic and some others excluded) back at their original caster. Reflect is still in the game's files if I'm not mistaken, after all. Or simply giving us a 50% chance to neglect all damage on a shield block would be pretty sweet also. There's so many things that could be done, I'm really hoping for something great.

[Lmnop]

Re: Holy Crap

they won't give PLDs straight auto-refresh as was mentioned earlier. S-E doesnt' do rip-offs.

And also, as mentioned earlier: Paladin-Provoke is not the answer. This would result in pld/nin and that's just stupid. As is, people use war/nin tanks as ghetto nin/wars. We don't need pld/nins turning all FFXI tanks into different flavors of the same thing. We want variety.

I really like Karyina's idea about different shields for different situations -- a concept that is sorta in place in the game but no where near developed.

Another idea I really wanna see is a trait that makes PLD recover a small amount of mp with each successful shield block.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Holy Crap

Another idea I really wanna see is a trait that makes PLD recover a small amount of mp with each successful shield block.

That might make a pretty slick /ja

[Armando]

Re: Holy Crap

Yeah, that would be pretty damned cool. They could call it MP Rage like the Ability from Kingdom Hearts. Still, I don't see why they can't give us Auto Refresh. Wouldn't be the first time a job shares a trait - look at Attack, Defense, and Accuracy Bonus.

[Lmnop]

Re: Holy Crap

auto-refresh is the only unique trait SMNs have. Also, it just doesn't seem very paladin-y. Why would PLDs be able to master a skill like that but not BLMs? Or RDMs. RDMs cast it all the time, they should develop the affinity for doing it subconciously first. As for PLD, I think any sort of Refresh they gain should be centered around what seperates them from the pure mages -- combat prowess.

[Jei]

Re: Holy Crap

mages can sit. PLD most of the times can't sit :O I think having some sort of MP refresh makes it fair for them.
It doesn't have to be all-time refresh like smn, but some way, you know. like the earing (or ring?) that gives PLD MP when they are hit. Just add more of that :D

[Deltran]

Re: Holy Crap

I had a scary dream well i was sleeping today (having a cold sucks ) pld becomes like pld in WoW and was just a healing class, would totally suck lol (yeah i know its weird dreaming about a game maybe i played to much)

[bikkebakke]

Re: Holy Crap

I just want shield block to nullify all damage and happen more often, auto-refresh, and provoke so i can sub mnk.

[Aeni]

Re: Holy Crap

mages can sit. PLD most of the times can't sit :O

No, they can, but they can't participate in SC and it takes away from an option to add hate (By ripping a worthless WS every 2 min or a 300% SW every 5 min)

I do think that if shield bash is getting an improvement, they work on weapon bash too. Here's the conundrum, going along Lmnop's view of job's and their affinity to job abilities.

It seems that Warriors are becoming a weapons specialist, moreso than Dark Knights. So, if that is the case, why don't they give Warriors Weapon Bash? I mean, it's common sense, really... In place of this, DRKs can get something in return, like aggressor, where 15% of their current HP total is lopped off for a boost in accuracy which lasts for as long as aggressor and has the same cool down time. Just a thought ;3

But going back to PLD discussion, I think these are changes that would make a difference:

-Adding several new swords that are PLD only, which has different damage ratings and/or unique enhancements to job abilities. For example, a sword that increases parrying or another sword which grants refresh, like having a VC wrapped around a weapon.

-Increase skill rating on Staffs for PLDs, include PLD only staves with better damage ratings and a bunch of other stuff. Also, using staves should grant PLD three-fold increase in parrying ability to replace the loss of shield. You can see where this is going when you have something like a Terra Staff equipped >.>

-Instead of auto-refresh, grant PLD clear mind trait. It seems more appropriate for the job. In return, add in special "rage control" or tp accumulation trait for the PLD class. Like warrior's rage in WOW, where rage was retained even when going through the three different battle stances.

-Have an ability like full body cover in which a PLD, using a large shield (So this may only be available with using certain shields) can reduce damage by 90% for 30 seconds but in return is not able to do jack for 30 seconds. Call it the Darksteel Crouch or something equally cheesy...

[Armando]

Re: Holy Crap

No, they can, but they can't participate in SC and it takes away from an option to add hate (By ripping a worthless WS every 2 min or a 300% SW every 5 min)

I think Jei means that a PLD simply can't rest mid-fight at all, while mages can. In a normal party a PLD can't rest at all until the fight is over, and must get up as soon as the next fight begins. Thus, if we got a trait or JA that allowed us to get some MP back mid-fight, it would alleviate that problem.

[Lmnop]

Re: Holy Crap

It seems that Warriors are becoming a weapons specialist, moreso than Dark Knights. So, if that is the case, why don't they give Warriors Weapon Bash? I mean, it's common sense, really... In place of this, DRKs can get something in return, like aggressor, where 15% of their current HP total is lopped off for a boost in accuracy which lasts for as long as aggressor and has the same cool down time. Just a thought ;3

Hehe, shafting your useless JA on me and taking my good one Though they both make sense. War should have Weapon Bash and Drk, in general, should have more sacrificing type moves that give good effect. I think that's the sort of air that DRKs are supposed to have with things like Souleater sacking hp for the biggest boost to melee attacks the game has to offer. Unfortunately, the sacrifices have become "sacrifice time you could be getting precious tp for casting a spell which you probably won't notice any effect from." or "sacrifice your defense as well as have the crawler turn on you and slow you for 3 minutes and beat the shit out of you in return for a slight increase in attack that you probably won't notice any effect from."

-Increase skill rating on Staffs for PLDs, include PLD only staves with better damage ratings and a bunch of other stuff. Also, using staves should grant PLD three-fold increase in parrying ability to replace the loss of shield. You can see where this is going when you have something like a Terra Staff equipped >.>

Pld already have A rank staff and a few awesome staves already (Kinkobo, is it? the one with crit hit%+ and some other awesome stuff?). The only problem with them is that when you're using them, not only are you sacking a shield, you're not using an Earth Staff. In other words, you've traded your defensive and offensive(in case of sword/shield) abilities for lasting power (Spirit Taker).

-Instead of auto-refresh, grant PLD clear mind trait. It seems more appropriate for the job. In return, add in special "rage control" or tp accumulation trait for the PLD class. Like warrior's rage in WOW, where rage was retained even when going through the three different battle stances.

-Have an ability like full body cover in which a PLD, using a large shield (So this may only be available with using certain shields) can reduce damage by 90% for 30 seconds but in return is not able to do jack for 30 seconds. Call it the Darksteel Crouch or something equally cheesy...

If S-E is going to recycle traits, I'd much rather see PLD get Clear Mind than Auto-Refresh. For this reason, I give the first idea the thumbs up. However, I still think they'd be better off with a whole new trait.

I don't want Shield Block to negate all damage, btw. This would make most shields useless (grab a buckler type that blocks often because the DR amount of larger shields doesn't matter if damage is reduced to 0 regardless).

On the contrary, with this JA Darksteel Crouch, =P Make it so it's guarenteed shield blocks for this duration. This would encourage PLDs more to go for the types of shields they're supposed to be using-- the big ones that RDMs can't use. Then again, just as Aeni worded it would probably be awesome enough. Really, 50% DR would be enough. I like this idea a lot because PLD is the only job that could afford to give up all hate-gain for 30 seconds and still hold hate solid. Reduced damage taken would improve that even more since less dmg taken = less hate lost, of course.

[Deltran]

Re: Holy Crap

-Have an ability like full body cover in which a PLD, using a large shield (So this may only be available with using certain shields) can reduce damage by 90% for 30 seconds but in return is not able to do jack for 30 seconds. Call it the Darksteel Crouch or something equally cheesy...

pld in WoW have a ja like that would seem like it would be just be ripping off them

[Elesirdur]

Re: Holy Crap

I just want shield block to nullify all damage and happen more often, auto-refresh, and provoke so i can sub mnk.

Would you like fries with that too?

I really like the new shield system. Shields proc way more often than they use to and skill much faster as well. If they could increase the shield proc rate and give us some kind of Dmg>MP conversion for shield blocks that would definitly be nice.

Even if Paladin gets a mini-voke I'm still sticking with Warrior sub. If you can stack a PLD-natural enmity ability with provoke, and all the goodies from warrior like Double Attack, HP, and other increased stats PLD will become a much more powerful job in a lot of situations. I think subbing Ninja completely gimpes a paladin. You don't hit as hard as a WAR/NIN and you sure don't evade like a real Ninja. You get your 6 shadows and that's it (maybe a parry or two if you're lucky). Ninja really "broke" FFXI by players taking the job in directions they didn't forsee. I looked back at the original Brady guide book for FFXI and it said that subbing Ninja didn't offer anything significant to melee characters; that info was just cribbed from JP gamers. Anyways, PLD/NIN (mini-voke or not) is just the worst of both worlds, still no damage, inability to take heavy physical damage, and very limited means of avoiding damage.