Keeping hate after Sidewinder??

[Cavalier]

I just had my first experience witha pt 55+, and a RNG using sidewinder. I have to wonder, CAN you get/keep the hate after it?

It was a JP pt and the setup was RDM, BRD, BLM, THF, RNG, PLD (me). The plan was RNG pulls, I do the norm, voke it and whatnot, RNG Sidewinders (maybe combined w/ Barrage? I know nothing about RNG, so I dunno if they can do that or what), then THF SATA off me. the THF and RNG were skillchaining sidewinder +viperbite (every single fight). We were in the Bohyada tree, chaining the mandys, crawlers, and crabs.

After a while of doing this, I decided to see if I could keep the hate when the RNG uses sidewinder. He'd pull, I'd voke, flash, cure 2, defender, cure3, sentinel, cure 2, shield bash, voke, cure 2, (flash then cure3 if Flash was ready again. with RDM+BRD, I was able to spam spells non-stop.) then he'd do sidewinder and pull it, and the thf would SATA off me. I have my gallant boots, gloves, and coronet (2 of them have Enmity +2), yet I laid down just about every ability (except Invincible, but I have to wonder if even that would do it), and still he could pull hate. (obviously I didn't use Sentinel, Defender, and Shield Bash every fight, but even in the ones I did all 3, it still didn't get the job done). In fact, if the THF missed SATA+WS (which only happened a couple times), I wasn't able to get it back (and usualy both provoke and Flash were ready after the SC) before we killed it (It was usually almost dead within seconds of the skillchain being completed anyway).

I've NEVER had a problem keeping hate. Pretty simple, if you ask me. voke, cure, and use abilities (Don't get me wrong though, I love it, and I'm glad to be abck int he game ^^). It wasn't a "problem" here per se (seeing as him pulling it w/ sidewinder was the plan). But it got me wondering, if you're not in a pt DESIGNED to do this, how do and/or CAN you keep hate?





thanks

[Serantos]

Sometimes, depending on the ranger, they get all high and mighty, I dont blame them. But they freaking open up with a WS, and barrage, its hard to get hate back. The best thing to do... I cure the ranger. You're not getting hit, so its not really wasting MP, and it will help to pull some hate, If all else fails, just Cover. You should have another voke before the timers up, and it also gives the ranger enough time to throw up Utsusemi.

I was also reading today, dependent on a heavy refresher pt, try to throw out Holy or Banish II on it. See if that will pull some hate back, I've never tried it myself, so I dont know.

Good luck!

[Rico]

Another good tip is when the Ranger is about to use Sidewinder you can tell him to get behind you before he uses it so when he uses Sidewinder you can get Cover easily.

[Agrathorn]

Originally posted by Rico
Another good tip is when the Ranger is about to use Sidewinder you can tell him to get behind you before he uses it so when he uses Sidewinder you can get Cover easily.

Thats what i usually do when its just a rng using sidewinder solo which doesnt happen to often.

But if its rng and thf skillchain i just have them line up like normal thf behind me for viperbite and if viperbite doesnt pull the hate back onto me i toss the rng a cure and cover him. Then just voke and flash when its available. If that doesnt get you hate back as one of the above posters said toss out a banish or holy if need be.

[ClydeArrowny]

If youre really worried about holding hate off rngs in a PT w/o hate placer, try for some enmity+ gear...mermaid ring, at higher lvs herc ring, etc.

[Psyco]

I think your problem is that you're not voking often enough. I'm not telling you what to do, but this is what I do when the fight opens: Voke, Shield Bash, Flash, Cure 3, Defender, Voke. I rarely lose hate to sidewinder, and I've been known to keep hate against MBs that do over 1400 damage. Just a thought. Give it a try and see what happens, and make sure you spam voke. Even if it's not ready, hitting your macro anyway will give you a very solid idea of when you can voke again.

[Serantos]

Heres to help against the spamming voke...

use this macro

/recast "Provoke"
/ja "Provoke" <stnpc>
/wait 1
/ma "Flash" <t>

So when u select the macro, it will show say
Provoke [0:10]

Now you know u still have 10 seconds before provoke, so wait a few and then go ahead and voke, a lot of people don't know how to use the /recast command, just trying to spread some love to the Paladins!

[JP_Ikari]

Hehe, well I only lose hate on SW if the mob is a flyer or I haven't established my hate. I mean I had a JPN's party that begged me to lose hate on SW.

JP

[Macht]

Yeah, Banish II and Holy seem to work pretty well. For some reason the monsters really hate divine based spells more then healings ones I beleive. For a PLD that means Banish I & II, Holy, and Flash all of those are divine spells.

[JP_Ikari]

Originally posted by Macht
Yeah, Banish II and Holy seem to work pretty well. For some reason the monsters really hate divine based spells more then healings ones I beleive. For a PLD that means Banish I & II, Holy, and Flash all of those are divine spells.

Technically you don't even need Holy or Banish, it's just a waste of MP for PLD's. Just as long as you Voke every 30 seconds and Cure II's, it should be able to make a mob stick on you like glue (Processionaires at this point and SS/SW with Barrage never took em away from me), and you also have to remember that this situation is very mob dependent. I rotate my skills from Rampart/Sentinel/Shield bash too. I don't use 2 of those at any given moment (even with haste) unless my party takes forever on killing it and I'm silenced or para'd (by Toramas).

You're prefectly fine to hold hate as long as you, be smart on your JA's, voke EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU HAVE VOKE, and Cure and you should be fine. Other than that, if the party tells you to let them get hate from you so someone can SA/TA off of you, you should be fine.

JP

P.S. Even with 4 enmity againts crabs, the only way I lost hate back then was when the RNG does Barrage Sidewinder then he the thf SA/TA's off him, and even that only happens on chain 4 or 5 when I'm down to 5mp.

[Cavalier]

Originally posted by Agrathorn
Thats what i usually do when its just a rng using sidewinder solo which doesnt happen to often.

But if its rng and thf skillchain i just have them line up like normal thf behind me for viperbite and if viperbite doesnt pull the hate back onto me i toss the rng a cure and cover him. Then just voke and flash when its available. If that doesnt get you hate back as one of the above posters said toss out a banish or holy if need be.

Yeah, this is what we were doing, so Cover wasn't needed un;ess the THF missed SATA and the hate stayed on the RNG (happened once or twice).

Originally posted by Psyco
I think your problem is that you're not voking often enough

I was Voking and Flashing as soon as they were up, and spamming Cure2/3/4.


Serantos, I'll check out /recast, I usually just hit my macro when provoke is close to being up to see how much time is left.

Originally posted by JP_Ikari
Technically you don't even need Holy or Banish, it's just a waste of MP for PLD's. Just as long as you Voke every 30 seconds and Cure II's, it should be able to make a mob stick on you like glue (Processionaires at this point and SS/SW with Barrage never took em away from me), and you also have to remember that this situation is very mob dependent. I rotate my skills from Rampart/Sentinel/Shield bash too. I don't use 2 of those at any given moment (even with haste) unless my party takes forever on killing it and I'm silenced or para'd (by Toramas).

You're prefectly fine to hold hate as long as you, be smart on your JA's, voke EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU HAVE VOKE, and Cure and you should be fine. Other than that, if the party tells you to let them get hate from you so someone can SA/TA off of you, you should be fine.

JP

P.S. Even with 4 enmity againts crabs, the only way I lost hate back then was when the RNG does Barrage Sidewinder then he the thf SA/TA's off him, and even that only happens on chain 4 or 5 when I'm down to 5mp.

As I said, I was spamming voke, flash, cure2/3/4 when needed and banish1/2 when they weren't. Didn't try Holy, but I could have since MP wasn't a concern.



What I wanted to know was, is it natural for for Sidewinder to pull hate regardless of everything I do (and I should expect to use Cover every time im in a normal xp pt and a RNG uses it?), or was I just dealing with an extremly powerful RNG (he was Elvaan)?

[Rico]

Don't feel bad if the RNG gets hate they ask for it. I don't understand why RNG's do Berrage before a WS. They are sealing there own fate.

[3xR]

Originally posted by Rico
Don't feel bad if the RNG gets hate they ask for it. I don't understand why RNG's do Berrage before a WS. They are sealing there own fate.

Sorry to go off topic but imo, it depends on Ranger "skill," really... Once I got comfortable with the party and got a feel of how much life the mob loses after the SC + MB, I can gauge when to actually start the SC and have just enough mob life for my barrage to hit and finish it off.

I've found that prime times to use Barrage/Sharp Shot are chains 2 and 5, assuming it's a normal party. If it's a RNG PT in sky, then I usually just save Barrage if the BRD was late on a pull and I need to do a quick Slug > Barrage > Slug :spin:

[Cavalier]

Originally posted by Rico
Don't feel bad if the RNG gets hate they ask for it. I don't understand why RNG's do Berrage before a WS. They are sealing there own fate.

Like I said, it's was the plan that the RNG pull hate in this pt. It occurred to me though, that he was probably using Barrage then Sidewinder to make absolutely sure he pulled hate. Dunno though, I guess I'll just have to get out tehre and PT some more.

[Jei]

Sometimes when skillchaining the mob doesn't turn to me So i'll have to throw in whatever abilities I have to build up hate. But I still haven't learnt sidewinder tho which should fix the problem.