Paladin/Whitemage post 60

[Megakurth]

Has anyone tried this? Ive seen this in action once. Note that it was with a Taru since he had lots of mana but.. This Paladin had a very large mana pool. With the help of the Curaga skills, this Paladin was able to hold massive aggro with this and normal cures. Also, this paladin had Stoneskin which gave a nice damage boost and Blink which was a nice added incentive. It seems like a viable combo when you think about it. It may have been mentioned before, but whats your thoughts?

[Dark-Cress]

Maybe at lower lvls it alright,
but when melee's and mages start to do the massive amounts of damage, cures wont be enough.
Not only that, but you will end up spending more MP than you can get back just to keep hate, making your PT members wait on you, or even worse, pull when you dont have enough.

[Ziguld]

This combo does work... but theres a catch. You need insane levels of skill to pull this off. You have to be able to time every single heal perfectly, make sure your heals land for full or near full, etc. You basically NEVER stop casting with this combo in order to maintain agro so you will pretty much need a rdm + brd in your rear line otherwise after chain2 you'll be holding em up.

War sub allows you to maintain some damage output, contribute to a renkei, tank the occasional NM that might spawn where you're exp'n and most importantly gives you Provoke which we all know how useful that is.

Another thing to keep in mind PLD/WHM has ZERO use for any alliance style encounter.

[Kagi]

PLD/WHM may be useful in alliances as backup healer/last-minute tank for that Invincible when whatever it is the alliance is fighting is almost dead and the mages won't stop drawing aggro.

[Pulma]

Well I am a Taru PLD ( so keep that in mind ). I dont think that even post 60 you should sub WHM. You lose alot of passive and active abilities that you get from WAR. I would rather have defender than more MP. Also subbing WHM takes your max HP down even further, and thats not really what you need.

[Ziguld]

As I see it a good paladin can do backup heals without /whm on an alliance run (provided they are on deck to be tanking and not actively tanking). In any case I see a pld/whm taking up one of those valuable 18 slots in an alliance. Replace the pld/whm with a pld/war and thats another tank, replace it with a whm/ and you have another healer. Either one far more capable of the job than a pld/whm. Sure you have versitility but min/maxing is almost always a better solution.

I will admit I have no first hand experience in dynamis zones so maybe there would be a use there given how the battling enviroment is different.

[Somajan]

If you're really worried about healing after level 60 to hold hate, the keep your healing skills maxed.

[Megakurth]

this is taken from a gamefaq guide that may help explain its usefulness.

Tarutaru PLD/WHM are arguably the best tanks in the game. Their Defense can
be just as high as any other Race/Subjob combination and Taru evasion is
second only to Mithra. With their deep MP reservers, a Taru PLD/WHM can chain
cast Cure to generate more hate than a War's provoke. To play as a Taru
PLD/WHM, Draw the monster from afar with Dia and begin attacking. Instruct
any other healers in the party to not heal you unless you go into the Red.
Learn how much each lvl cure heals and cast that as soon as you take that
much damage.

For example, if you take 30 damage and your Cure I heals up to 30, cast
Cure I to heal yourself and draw hate away from the rest of the party.
Healing yourself draws an immense amount of hate. Act as a backup healer
as required. Once you hit Lvl 30 PLD/WHM use Divine Seal + Cure III to draw
enough hate to last the rest of the battle. at Lvl 32 you can now use
Divine Seal + Curaga to generate even more hate! Flash at lvl 37 PLD is
designed to generate nothing but Hate.

You will also gain access to Blink to evade even more attacks, Stoneskin to
take less damage, and Raise at lvl 50 versus lvl 75 to make you the perfect
party tank.

Tarutaru PLD/WHM are the best solo players in the game.
You have access to Invisible/Sneak much like the ranger to avoid trouble
before it starts. Your ridiculous Defense along with
Parlyze/Slow/Blink/Stoneskin/BarSpells will let you take less damage while
Dias let you deal more.

Last argument: 8 MP=30HP So at lvl 70 PLD

Taru: 876 + 8*505 = 4916 HP
Hume: 1087 + 8*292 = 3433 HP
Mithra: 1087 + 8*292 = 3433 HP
Elvan: 1198 + 8*221 = 2966 HP
Galka: 1339 + 8*113 = 2243 HP

Obviously, for effective HP, more MP is king. Oh, and did I mention above that
those numbers do not take into account a subjob of WHM (read: even more MP)
nor that Tarutaru have much better AGI/Evasion and will take less hits while
connecting on more hits.

Granted, Tarutaru are not damage dealers, but you didn't pick PLD to be a
damage dealer anyway.

[AtraposBLM]

...we all know how educated the people at GameFaqs are ; ;

Pld/Whm is NOT the best soloer. It might be able to last pretty long, but it'll never kill anything above TW.

Also, yes, you can hold aggro as a pld/whm...problem is, using curaga's means A) you have to wait for the other members of the PT to gain aggro, and B) Spam very mp-intensive spells.

Also, you're assuming that you land every cure for max healing potential, and never get interrupted (...I hear that's kinda tough (note the heavy sarcasm)). Also, /war will let you take less damage, have access to numerous job abilities and passives and such.

The final nail in /whm's coffin is the simple fact that you'll have to burn more mp than a pld/war, and you won't be as reliable a tank. Therefore, /war is better.

[ZQM]

Is it just me, or is a tank who relies on having his teamates be hit to gain hate not a very good idea for a tank? :confused:


No thank you.

[Claritin]

I have to clear up a few misconceptions being tossed around

I have to clear up a few misconceptions being tossed around

AtraposBLM : Pld/Whm is NOT the best soloer. It might be able to last pretty long, but it'll never kill anything above TW....

Comment : Umm... as PLD/WHM while camping Garaliage Coffer I solo'd a decent con bat when I was at 90% HP and 75% mana and I won without using my 2 hour... This was as lvl 56 PLD/27 WHM... and the main point was that you have sneak/invis also.... hell at lvl 75/37 you also have 3 teleports. I managed to raise someone while camping coffer also.... man were they happy. I could have camped the coffer with sneak oils and prisim powders but that gets expensive as hell.

ZQM : Is it just me, or is a tank who relies on having his teamates be hit to gain hate not a very good idea for a tank?

Comment : Umm... the idea is that you cure yourself... not your teammates... although that is handy also.

Megakurth : Obviously, for effective HP, more MP is king (further info on HP vs MP ratios was given... all of that was perfectly logical)

Comment : Nope... for effective HP you need enough HP to llive through a high-end weapon skill... and a Taru PLD/WHM usually doesn't.... for some monsters yes... Taru PLD/WHM would be great... but to have to tell a party "sorry can't fight there... I suck" is not something I would want to have to do.

Pulma : I would rather have defender than more MP.

Comment : that is more of a personal preference... to be honest I don't use defender much... I need the attack power from going defender-less to hold aggro... however I don't use beserk either. After I get full AF that might change.

Megakurth : This Paladin had a very large mana pool. With the help of the Curaga skills, this Paladin was able to hold massive aggro with this and normal cures. Also, this paladin had Stoneskin which gave a nice damage boost.

Comment : I will ignore the Stoneskin being a damage boost because I am sure that is a typo (it's a damage reducer) But the mana pool comment is irrelevant. I have plenty of mana to hold aggro without provoke as a PLD/WAR.... if I wanted to go just one fight.... it's all about mana regen time.... not the size of your pool. Provoke is mana-free hate.

Now all that being said... I have not attempted to group as a PLD/WHM... it's hard enough to get a group as PLD/WAR some times... I can tell you a Cure IV gets me more hate than a provoke... but I can cast that like 2x... I can provoke like 5 times a fight. A Taru could cast it like 4x before OOM... Cure III might be provoke power level... but still that means 8 casts for a taru.... roughly 2 fights.


In a group setting the only things PLD/WHM have over PLD/WAR is blink, stoneskin, status cures, raise, curaga... and more mana.

Curaga doesn't do jack for hate unless you have everyone in the group wounded.

Raise isn't a combat spell and by the time PLD/WHM get it.. your RDM, BLM/WHM, or BRD/WHM can cast it also.

Status Cures are handled by WHM, BLM/WHM, BRD/WHM, or RDM

So you are looking at blink and stoneskin... while cool they are fairly mana intensive and long cast times.... you would be better off with a Cure IV.

Now for the MP... it's not the size of our pool that matters to hold hate.. it's if we can regen it fast enough to be ready for the next monster.... PLD/WAR need less mana per fight... therefore they need less regen power. a PLD/WHM should be chugging juices like there is no tomarrow and travel with a RDM and a BRD.... that's a difficult thing to set up.

So while I believe it is viable... there are some restrictions on when it is viable.... party set-up and camp location can easily rule out a Taru PLD/WHM as tank.... I wish this wasn't true... because I don't want to lvl my war.... I like my WHM better and it is already higher lvl than the WAR by quite a bit..... but it is true.

[ZQM]

Re: I have to clear up a few misconceptions being tossed around

Originally posted by Claritin
ZQM : Is it just me, or is a tank who relies on having his teamates be hit to gain hate not a very good idea for a tank?

Comment : Umm... the idea is that you cure yourself... not your teammates... although that is handy also.

One of the biggest draw that I've hard for using PLD/WHM is Divine Seal + Curaga. For Curaga to get hate, your teamates have to be hit.

[Deodorant]

I've only once partied with a pld/(something other than war), and that was with a lvl 60-something taru pld/rdm. He (or maybe it was a she, can't tell with tarus when they have helmets on) was one of the best tanks I've partied with; phalanx, stoneskin, mass heals, super mp, hate wasn't a problem at all.

However, exp was below average, because we were limited to 2 or 3 and only occasionally sometimes 4 chains, followed by a long rest for the PLD to regain all his/her mp. There was also (obviously) no way for the PLD to participate in skillchains, which will definitely limit his versatality later on (I'd estimate half the parties I've been in lately, the PLD is part of the skillchain).

[Megakurth]

Thing about stoneskin being a damage boost was a typo. Meant it to say defense boost. Im basically gonna try this out. Im still going to keep war at a good lvl so if it doesnt work, I could always level war and sub that instead. Its a viable build, requires some practice, but can work very well.

[AtraposBLM]

Try soloing again at 60+, or try soloing something like Amemit (Which a nin/whm could solo...I've seen it happen).