NIN *and* PLD *can* work together!!

[Dtec]

I think a NIN and a PLD would work very well together in a group. I think a NIN job is very versatile, they are not confined to *only* blink tanking. Take this into consideration, with Berserk, a NIN can do decent damage and at higher lvls they swing 4 times before a 2H weapon swings once, plus they can also MB their own skillchain with ninjitsu, and instead of using Utsusemi as a main tool, they can use it as a secondary tool incase of emergency, for example, a mob spawns and links, the NIN can cast Utsusemi and basically solo the spawn until the group is finished with the orginal mob, and the NIN will take zero to very little damage with the spawn. Just my 2 gil

*edit* also, they have access to katanas that have status affects, such as poison, silence, and weaken defense.

I made this post cuz I'm tired of seeing PLD and NIN compete against each other when they can work with each other.

[Ridill]

Those are valid points and I've expierenced tanking along side a Paladin for many levels. (LS Party, levels 32-40) However, having two perfectly good tanks in a party is a crutch, imo. A damage dealer or support character would be more beneficial to the pt.

But, just to let you know, I extremely enjoyed soloing crawler links in CN.

[Rawls]

ridill, i think you are missing Dtec's point. He is saying that NINs are kinda like a better Red Warrior and shouldn't just be limited to blink tanking. In fact, the elemental damage ninjitsu also weakens the mob's resistance to another element making them very useful to BLMs. Doing this the NIN can also act as an emergency blinker.

what you are assuming is that blink tanking is all that NINs are useful for. this means you pretty much ignored the potential for the NIN to be fair good support fighter.

[Somajan]

I had a lot of fun saving money for a ninja back in Eastern Altepa desert. I was a paladin, and he was greatful that I could tank. During each battle he would use his elemental jutsus which gave our party an even greater edge against the monsters.

Also, with many of the ninjas I've partied with, most of the time, the ninja/warrior will let me tank even though he's got the utsusemis.

[Deodorant]

No ... two tanks in a party is bad. Ninja damage is not decent, it's gimp. Paladin damage is even worse. Get two of them in the same party and damage output from melee is so low it'll take you forever to kill anything.

I can already see all you nin/thfs reaching for your keyboards, but nin is not a good fighter, period. You won't cripple a party by having pld and nin, but if there is a choice substituting a real damage melee for one of them will result in higher effectiveness.

At lower levels, perhaps the problem might not be so apparent, but when you reach 30k+ exp per level, you won't want a nin and pld in the same party. Actually you won't want a nin/(anything other than war) either, but that's a different argument for a different time.

[imac2much]

Hm I think I've read that NIN finally start to become respectable damage dealers at lvl 65 with Blade : Ku (and of course 4 Dual Wield Hastes... 5 when they get to 70)

Until then, yeah their damage is nothing to get excited about. They will be doing less than other melee DDs generally.. then again they're a bit more versatile since they have ninjitsu.

Not to say whether they will work together or not, but many NINs have told me they only started doing respectable damage after 65.

[Weezingpipes]

Take this into consideration, with Berserk, a NIN can do decent damage

So you are inviting someone who can do "decent" damage with an ability that won't be active 100% of the time? Why not just get a damage dealer who doesn't have to rely on 1 ability for "decent" damage and does great damage already?

higher lvls they swing 4 times before a 2H weapon swings once

And? At best they might gain TP mildly faster than a 2 hand user, in the same period of time won't outdamage 1 swing by a 2 hand user, and their WS are pretty low damage anyway, not like they add much to a party honestly.

plus they can also MB their own skillchain with ninjitsu

I'm not totally sure but someone told me their nukes have a long cast time which makes this awkward to use with magic bursts (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Regardless I've only grouped with ninjas who tanked, not as damage dealers, so I doubt the ability to burst is much to get excited about. DRK can burst too, few of them really do though in my experience.

and instead of using Utsusemi as a main tool, they can use it as a secondary tool incase of emergency, for example, a mob spawns and links, the NIN can cast Utsusemi and basically solo the spawn until the group is finished with the orginal mob, and the NIN will take zero to very little damage with the spawn

By solo the spawn, assuming the add is an IT, you mean get it down maybe 10% or so while the group kills what you already have. If the NIN is soloing the add, you have a whole other set of problems anyway. Besides if your group is any decent at all, you have at least one of the following, a BRD RDM or BLM - they all can sleep. Much better use of resources.

also, they have access to katanas that have status affects, such as poison, silence, and weaken defense.

Maybe this isn't true for NIN, but its true for every other melee in the game : weapons with effects that go off by attacking on them rarely go off. Might see it once every 20-30 minutes, sometimes longer. Also the extra effects are often quite weak. Maybe if Katana effects went off every 10 seconds, that would be semi useful but just going with the assumption since melee procs suck ass for everyone else, its really a gimmick more than anything.

Before level 30 sure, invite all the ninjas you want as damage dealers. Afterwards, if you aren't inviting them to tank its basically a waste of a group slot. NIN/THF isn't a viable damage dealer combo...thats a NIN who has steal and wants to save money on sheiei (sp).

Jobs have roles they excel in. Unfortunately NIN isn't really as versatile as say a warrior, they fill in a tank role pretty well and thats about all they can do. People don't invite RNG and DRG to tank in their parties, whats so hard to understand that NIN isn't a real choice when choosing a damage dealer slot?

[Arximiro]

Well the lvl 60 NIN in my LS did awesome damage. He was doing 760 damage to exorays with his WS with only 100% tp. He has the atk +20 gloves tho and full AF

[imac2much]

Exorays. Not XP mobs. There is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference. (hope I mad myself clear )

I can do 500-600 damage on those too. And I'm a Paladin.

It's like when people see guillotine doing huge damage on low level creature who think it's some godly WS, when in actuality Cross Reaper is much more useful (and damaging when combined with fuidama) for lvl 3 renkeis. /shrug

[Asherek]

What about Shurikens? I've heard do they a lot of damage.

What are downsides to using them? Long re-use time? Expense?

[Kaickul]

If you really wanted this sort of combo, I would be inclined to say that pld/nin would be better than nin/pld. Just from first impression you would be gimping your evasion and dex for what?... A few more points of defense? Doesn’t seem better when you could build the dex and evasion on a pld plus add elemental attacks, debuffs and utsesumi.

Nin is actually a good replacement for war when you are not the main tank or just soloing. I prefer this for the ability to use two A+ weapons over a GS for more damage and faster kills.

[imac2much]

From what I hear, very expensive. Not only do you spend money throwing them, you need to spend money to raise the skill up if it's not maxed at the moment, since if it's not maxed, it will rarely hit. That's why a good NIN is very good at keeping aggro, but incredibly expensive... not only do they spend money on shihei (utsusemi stuff), but other ninjitsu stuff too, and shurikens.

But a non-tanking NIN before lvl 65 who uses shurikens is 1) more expensive than RNG and 2) less damaging than RNG. Go figure.