Just what exactly does this job trait do?

[Nanila]

Ok, this sounds newbish...but it's been bugging me for some time and I have to ask. Just what exactly do these Defense boosts we get do? When I got to level 20 pld/ 10 war I was suppose to get another defense boost from my war levels but I don't see it, and my defense didn't go up any.

So do these abilities increase your defense, or do they just decrease the amount of damage you take? I have to ask because we keep getting them and I would really like to know just exactly what they do.

Also is the level 30 ability we get, the defense boost that lasts for 30 seconds. Is that worth using all the time, or at all? I know that war's get a defense boost for 3 mins... our 30 second defense boost just seems.. Well weak. 30 seconds isn't that long. Is it a really big increase, or just something you use on those IT mobs you fight?

Thanks in advance

[Kai]

It increases your defense which decreases the amount of damage you take heh. The reason why you do not see Defense Bonus multiple times in your job traits is because it stacks. Most the time Sentinel is used as an extra provoke. Like say if provoke time isn't up and you need to pull a monster off a pt member you can use Sentinel or Shield Bash to create hate and get the target back on you ^^.

[imac2much]

As far as I know, the Warrior's Defense up trait and PLD's first Defense up trait do not stack at all. You do not get any extra defense for subbing a lvl 10 Warrior to lvl 20+ PLD. The extra Defense up traits the PLD gets at other levels tho do stack.

[nuvas]

Originally posted by imac2much
As far as I know, the Warrior's Defense up trait and PLD's first Defense up trait do not stack at all. You do not get any extra defense for subbing a lvl 10 Warrior to lvl 20+ PLD. The extra Defense up traits the PLD gets at other levels tho do stack.

That goes against everything I've heard. Anyone else have insight about this?

Elidrin
40 Paladin/Warrior
Midgardsormr

[Pilsbane]

I agree with Imac2much. When I hit level 20 Paladin/10warrior I only gained 2 def (1 or 2 def gain per level is standard). The warrior and paladin defensive bonuses do not stack.

[imac2much]

nuvas, that's because lots of people like to assume things by theory without actually checking themselves.

I notice you're a lvl 40 PLD. When you hit 20, you should have noticed that you only gained 1-2 defense (because of increased vit), not the +10 defense another Def up trait would give you. When my PLD hit 10 and 30, I got those big increases in defense, but not at 20 (war sub 10). When I switch job to lvl 20 thf (no sub), then lvl 20/10 thf/war, I clearly see the increase in defense. When I was lvl 20 PLD, and I switched from no sub, to 20/10 pld/war, I saw only a small increase of defense (from higher vit), not from a stacked job trait. Every other PLD I know that has *CHECKED* themselves when they hit 20, says that apparently these 2 traits do not stack. This is a disappointment, and honestly before level 50 I see no reason to sub WAR except for provoke (which of course is a very good reason). That's why when I solo I go pld/thf. =)

[Aylura]

Somehow they all stack so I'm not totally sure, I mean you still get that phys up and virus resist from Warrior, so it would seem logical to think that you still get everything from a warrior sub.

[imac2much]

Yes that would make sense, and it really should be how it works. But it's not. Please try it out yourself instead of resorting to theory and hearsay, and you'll realize it just simply isn't the case. It's sad... seriously before lvl 50 PLD/WAR has no advantage over, say, a PLD/THF other than provoke. Actually PLD/THF is a better tank due to higher evade, and only like 1 or 2 less vit (barely 1 defense difference) and slightly less HP. Oh well.

[James Ruglia]

Thief lacks PRAVOKE, and a couple points of Vitality usually adds up more than a couple points of Agility.

And the thirty second Defense up Super-ability of the Paladin makes you immune to physical damage, if that' swhat you ere talking about.

[Pilsbane]

James, reread what Imac2much said. He said the below level 50 PLD/WAR has no advantage over a PLD/THF other than provoke. Obviously provoke is the clincher.

The level 30 ability Nanila is asking about is Sentinel. It does not make you immune to all physical attacks. You have Sentinel mixed up with what the Paladin 2-hour, invinciblity, does.

[imac2much]

Thanks Pilsbane for clearing some of this thread's misunderstings up. What you say is correct =)

At level 30, my PLD/WAR has about 2 more defense than my PLD/THF. This proves that the WAR's Defense up trait does not stack with the PLD's, since the defense difference is because of VIT. Actually, I think the defense difference may only be 1, cuz from what I remember PLD/WAR only had like 2 vit more than PLD/THF (I could be wrong, this is off the top of my head) and 2 vit = 1 defense.

Not only does PLD/THF have higher evade from the higher agility stat, but it also has Evade Up trait that is actually helpful (unlike War's Defense Up). I dodge noticeably more with my PLD/THF than my PLD/WAR. Not only that, THF sub at lvl 30 has Sneak Attack, Steal, and Treasure Hunter as well; all very useful abilities when soloing (for quests, gil farming, etc). What does PLD/WAR have? Provoke, and that's it.

Sentinel is PLD's lvl 30 ability that seems to add a % to your defense. Without it, I have 192 defense... with it I have 222. Maybe it just adds 30 Defense... I'm not sure ^^ But it definitely does not make you invincible. Like Kai said, it does add some more hate though... the best time I like to use it is when there are links (to get both monsters on you, and also increase your defense). It's also good to use when you notice BLM or strong melee classes unleashing a lot of strong magic/WS/crits and you haven't cured yourself enough or already used Shield Bash and Provoke isn't refreshed yet.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Nanila]

If it only increase by that small amount, they really should make it last longer (sentinal). I mean wars defender is 5 times better since it lasts for 3 minutes, and they can use it again right away. At least make it last 2 minutes or something.

And yes I checked around as well and you do not get the defense boost from WAR it looks like. It's almost as if they cancel eachother out and only one stays. They should change that so we get our 10 extra defense from subbing war.

I would love to see some kind of PLD provoke though. Seems kinda dumb that we're forced to sub war just to have a chance of tanking. Seems to me though that a WAR is better then a PLD up to level 60 since they have defender. If they just keep using that, they'll have better defense then use. But that's just my thoughts.

Things pld really needs seems to get that WAR defense ability (which we get, but doesn't stack with us). Longer time for Sent, and least some kind of taunt.

[SSDrizzt]

I had this same question myself today when i reached 20pld/10war, i checked defense b4 and right after level to see if i get noticable increase from subjob defense up and nothing. I think changed to 10whm sub and 0 defense change. Thats just ridiculous that at lvl 25 war has potential to do more dmg ANd have higher defense then pld with defender ja, until a pld reaches much higher levels he's basically a gimp melee with okay defense and healing.

[Kai]

A Gimp melee with no defense ><;;? Maybe you will understand once you get higher in level, I'm 42 and have about 240 Def with PII... At later levels I think PLD's become essential to level efficiently.

[SSDrizzt]

240 defense with PII?? what's PII?
how much more defense did the 2nd defense up trait add?

and if you woulda read i did say at this level my defense is even with wars at the lvl20-25range. Heck at this level even Drks have same defense as PLD cuz they can sub war and get that defene up trait that doesn't stack for us. Plus at 25 wars will get defender which would give them more defense.

exactly when does PLD defense starting seperating from the pack?