Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

[Intensity]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Um if you dont mind, may i ask why is it not important up to 60...? If you keep spamming it you will still get hate right..? So why would you not want to keep spamming ele wheel?

Think of it this way. If a 75 BLM never got any 3rd tier nukes IE: Fire 3 etc., even though they're a 75 BLM, Fire 2 isn't gonna do that great of damage. It may do well against a too weak or easy prey mob, but it's not effective @ all on exp mobs. So the reason the Tonjutsu Wheels effectiveness drops out @ 60 is because even though the NIN casting is a high lvl, their spells are still only 40th lvl damage technically. It'd probably be like exp'n @ 60 with a lv40 Katana rather than one @ 60, your atk is gonna be high because your lvl, but the damage cap on the katana is going to significantly lower your per hit dmg.

[sakiko]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

what i noticed..if you got a RDM that is trying to lvl up there elem. magic..you might as well just leave the pt..if you got a BRD, you should be fine just as every one said Blind and slow it, then just nuke it and voke when you can...ninja startin to cost ALOT more..but u'll be a good azz tank

[SonikU4ia]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

At Level 44, I am keeping some sick hate with the elemental wheel.

Kurayami: Ni is doing some sick stuff too. On top of my +50Evasion with Food, I'm tanking like a legend.

Unless you're BLM or someone else if overnuking, or your DRK is spamming JAs+WSs, then you shouldn't have any problems keeping hate.

The occasional tarutaru Waterga 2 off Distortion might pull hate away from you. But a quick Ninjutsu, WS, or JA will fix that right up.

If you add any +Enmity and Dorado Sushi, you can keep hate even that much more better at these levels. But, I don't think any of those are necessary. I'd rather devote the slots to Evasion!

A friend of mine who just finished NIN to 75 said that Arhat's gear is nice later on for keeping hate. Really, I don't think NIN had any problems keeping hate like people make it out to be. It just depends on how you're playing the job. :-)

[Omni]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

keeping hate isnt really the problem per se. its just different than before. before, the utsu adjustments, i can just provoke and attack and that was enough to keep hate most the time. if i provoked too often, sometimes the renkei starter wouldnt be able to turn the mob.
lv. 40-60 is really nice to hold hate since you get your ni elementals and they start hitting for 80-90 per spell. great way to turn hate around. however, those spells lose their punch later on and you start landing them for 20-30 dmg a lot of the time. as you go on, jobs start coming into their own and dmg begins to pile on. you'll need to work a bit more to keep things steady.

[Zempten]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

I've started back up my NIN and I finally hit lvl 51.

At this level I was wondering if this setup would work to keep hate:

Main: Swap of the 6 HQ elemental staffs
Head: Emp Hairpin
Neck: Spirit Torque
Ear1: Ninjitsu Earring
Ear2: Moldative Earring
Body: Nokizaru Gi
Hands: Royal Knight's mufflers
Ring1: Mermaid's Ring
Ring2: Wisdom Ring
Back: Gramary Cape
Waist: Survival Belt
Legs: Nokizaru Hakama
Feet: Fuma Kyahan

Would this work up to 60? Currently I'm hitting for around 20 DMG per katana. So i think using the wheel still does more DMG.

[Omni]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

wheel probably does, but the higher you get, the less effective elemental ninjutsu gets. once you start seeing your dmg drop off from elemental ninjutsu, you'll need to start doing other things to build hate.

[Shifty]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

I've started back up my NIN and I finally hit lvl 51.

At this level I was wondering if this setup would work to keep hate:

Main: Swap of the 6 HQ elemental staffs
Body: Nokizaru Gi
Hands: Royal Knight's mufflers

Would this work up to 60? Currently I'm hitting for around 20 DMG per katana. So i think using the wheel still does more DMG.

Swap of 6 HQ staves? why would you need +atk and +acc. You wont be hitting anything, and if you do, it'll be for 0 and you'll be losing tp when you switch anyways. i think at 73 my staff skill is capped at 90? lol

One problem with swap of staves is the fact that you dissappear when you change equips that affect your chars appearance, so its going to be an issue when whm or rdm has to heal you, and your dissapearing.

The other day, i hit 55 WAR with a taru nin using the staff thing. He couldnt hold hate for beans, expecially when i started shooting off Rampage. He was lucky tho, because i kept wasting tp with the mob running around. When i lvld nin through kuftal, i had no issues with hate holding until rngs got sidewinder. Keep the enmity ring and maybe get a eris' earring+1. Focus on str/atk/acc and you shouldnt have any issues with hate holding.

As stated before, elemental ninjitsus get resisted too much past 60. wasting time doing 8-9 dmg on 4/7 of your ele wheel just sucks, when you could have done 150-200dmg with katanas flying.

[Zempten]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Swap of 6 HQ staves? why would you need +atk and +acc. You wont be hitting anything, and if you do, it'll be for 0 and you'll be losing tp when you switch anyways. i think at 73 my staff skill is capped at 90? lol

One problem with swap of staves is the fact that you dissappear when you change equips that affect your chars appearance, so its going to be an issue when whm or rdm has to heal you, and your dissapearing.

The other day, i hit 55 WAR with a taru nin using the staff thing. He couldnt hold hate for beans, expecially when i started shooting off Rampage. He was lucky tho, because i kept wasting tp with the mob running around. When i lvld nin through kuftal, i had no issues with hate holding until rngs got sidewinder. Keep the enmity ring and maybe get a eris' earring+1. Focus on str/atk/acc and you shouldnt have any issues with hate holding.

As stated before, elemental ninjitsus get resisted too much past 60. wasting time doing 8-9 dmg on 4/7 of your ele wheel just sucks, when you could have done 150-200dmg with katanas flying.

I'm referring to pre 60. Because for some reason your all saying that it's after 60.

Who says I plan on hitting anything? ^^ It's just elemental wheel till after 60. I can always duo with my NPC to keep my katana capped. The only reason why I'm doing this is the fact that I can have 80 DMG from a ninjitsu spell or hit for 40 at most right now with my katanas. Plus I think I've seen a thread where NINs were DD with elemental wheel somewhere in the fourms. . . I can't find it atm

Double Post Edited:
Oh here it is. I found it ^^

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...mage+elemental

I know he is NIN/BLM. I'm just wondering if it's feasable cause I'm kind of tired of basic trends so if there is a way I can tank "differently" I'd like to try it out, plus it's kind of fun.

This was basically where I got my idea from (not really concern with the "efficiency" of it just looking for a different way)

[aegina]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

don't feel bad if the ranger pulls hate off you. that's what we're there for, hehe.

i've seen paladins having trouble keeping the mob off me. when i join a pt with a ninja tank, i simply expect to be tanking at least half the fight, minimum. no offence to ninjas, it's just that the damage i deal is pretty insane...

[Zempten]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

I've never really noticed how much other people's DMG is so I can't really reply to that ^^ It's alot of clutter anyways ^^

So, how much do you do a shot on average? ^^

Double Post Edited:
Sorry if getting a bit off topic.

[Omni]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

just as long as the tank, who ever it maybe, can hold hate till renkei then his job is done. you dont want to hold hate so lightly that before the renkei, the mob is bouncing around but also you dont want to hold hate too tight that your thf or /thf cant fuidama either. so pld or nin, both need to find that balance.

in all honesty, you dont need the staves to do good elemental dmg pre 60. only after 60 is when you need all the boost you can get. i still think you should stick with katanas and just nuke normally.

[Khidir]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

Against fast attackers Plds are better supposedly mandies raptors greater birds i believe have hi att or double att that shreds shadows

[zerofighter777]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

My current NIN is lvl 61 and what works for me to hold hate is lossing the DEC/ACC gear and going more DMG/ATK route. I use Dorado Sushi for any ACC/ENMITY I need now. Like everyone says, elemental ninjutsu dmg drops alot around 60 and enfeeble ninjutsu does not want to stick for me even with ninjutsu capped out . I tried different combos of equipment and just doing more dmg now is better (well, for me) since katana dmg is better. I have played NIN since I started FFXI (NOV 93' ) and hate control depends on the party. I remeber one time the ranger and blm went nuts at begging of fight and yelled at me for not controlling the mob lol. Just do your best I say. I use to get PISSED if I got hit, I was hella anal when tanking, but after the two patches, you will lose hate/get hit no matter what.

[Omni]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

nov. 93? O.o wow you musta had the ffxi alpha alpha alpha verison!

[little ninja]

Re: Trouble holding hate! advise [Can I have it?]

holding hate is different for every party set up. some parties i had to build a more eminty voke macro. some i found i used more ninjitsu then i really wanted to. an some i had to go more DD oriented.

really first thing you need to do is find out what eminty gear is available to you. or whats due up in the near future. im pretty sure by 58 there are 4slots you can have eminty. head, ring, an 2 ear slots. for 7-10 total more eminty. plus if you add in squid sushi i believe this will also give you a eminty burst. with this macroed into your voke should prove to be a more stronger hate spike then without any eminty.

besides for adding eminty to your setup, i believe acc an str to be the next best thing. since you have to compete against wars an rngs. you basically need to have near the same gear as them, that means life belt, sinper rings str rings, royal gaurd collar, all this will add acc to your char. more acc means more hits, with will keep you near the DD output of the other jobs.

at around 60 i did away with most of my ninjitsu elemental wheel. i brang only the one id burst with to add some DD output for me. i brang a stack of powders that made a mob weak to the ele that the mages would be bursting with. so if they were bursting with lightining i made the mob weak to it. then i brang those powders that would make my buffs more likely to stick, then i brang the blind,slow an paraylze plus shihei as well.