Cross Counter

[Kulapica]

First of all, i am not a mnk...yet, but i am a big fan of mnk...since FFV. however, i do have a question on cross counter. CC is always on a mnk's wishing list, but is it really that useful for a mnk in exping party? i mean, how often do you have to tank? isnt counter meaningless if you dont tank the mob? i know with mnk's insane damage, you guys can grab the hate once a while, but if your tank is good enough, he should be able to grab the hate back soon enough right? so, i am just wondering is CC is over rated on exping party.
PS. CC is definitely good on farming that's for sure, just not sure about the exping part of it.

[Death_stinger]

I wish i had CC thay the best can last u all the way to 75 infact but i ant got 2mil to blow much less people to help camp the nm
:sweat: . :dead:

[viras]

Actually, after borrowing CC for exping and for farming. EVEN with counterstance on, i hardly could tell a difference in countering frequency. btw I'm 64. I'm also starting to think that some things are way overpriced according to the server's economy. CC on Ragnarok are like 2mill ish. Kote are around 600k+ . These are my routes of weapons to 75.

Tact.Hooks+2 (which i personally love). Vishnu's Cesti. Indra Katars. Meteor Cesti (only for the mad STR+).

[Death_stinger]

bah i dont whant CC for the + to counter XD there just all around good the only wep u might whant to pick up just incase is Shiva's Claws for wen ur haveing to many problums with acc but if the rest of ur gear is good CC prity much is it.

P.S. but the i dont mind the + to counter at all.

[Kulapica]

So basically it's a luxury weapon to keep around with

[DM337]

You don't but Cross Counters for the +Counter, you buy them for the +19 or so damage, obviously.

[viras]

This is my biggest concern with CC and Spartan. Yes the D: is 19,20 respectively. But the delay is so much! This is why I really prefer Tact.Hooks+2. It's D:16, Delay: +76! And i've also heard DDK has a CHR factor in it. And it also has in regions not controlled by home country +4 CHR.

On Steelshells as a 64. i was doing with total of both fists the same dmg as a DRK's scythe. ( I don't know if scythe has same dmg reduction). But people tell me MNK can't fight crabs, but if you have enough STR+ anything is possible!

[gork]

MNK has no additional DMG penalty vs crabs... theres nothing "special" like vs amorphs (Haku/Ooze etc). Crabs just have higher then normal defense which hurts low base dmg weapons (h2h) a BIT more then it hurts higher dmg weapons (Scythe). Crabs are BLM playtoys, all melee do poor on Crabs.

[KamaAina]

Cross counters are the only weapon I would consider using in XP parties, aside from Spharai. They are hands down my favorite peice of equipment availiable to monk.

Here is the reason it gives great damage, and an alright delay. But that is not the reason, if that was the only reason I would use spartan,avenger's, feral, etc. etc. But I do use it for the +5 counter. With only the +5 counter and counterstance its not that impressive. But add +5 counter from CC's, some avenger's, and either AF1 pants or the new white pants indroduced w/ expansion (akido or whatever the +2 counter ones) and you will see a huge difference.

To me its not a matter of liking them over another weapon (I think they are kinda ugly personally), but I have to wear them if I don't want to get agro and die. And if you say getting agro and dieing isn't a problem for monk, then yes Cross-Counters are not something you need (go upgrade other slots first). I would only consider using Indra Katars/avengers.. etc. if for some reason I was doing low damage and not getting hate regularly. Do I tank alot? No, not really but I can if I am needed to. In KRT I often solo a skeleton if it links, or just for fun and to get chain 6+ while the rest of the group is killing another one. I tank alot of NM when helping people out, and I do usually get a fair amount of hate when in XP parties. And I came to monk from playing Ranger, so I really enjoy being able to not only take a few hits but counter them.

Very few monks on my server even counterstance, I don't see why. I get hit for maybe 50-80 more damage then w/o it, but I counter around 70%+ of the hits depending on the level of the mob. Once I get my AF2 boots I plan on tanking from there on out in KRT, maybe setting up some 3 person parties or something to get easy xp. And so far I have partied with alot of monks using different h2h weapons, and haven't had them outdamage me really (except for one who was 2-3 levels higher then me and a very good monk using avenger's). Also I switch from my attacking gear to my countering gear w/ a macro as soon as I get hate. So thats another thing I don't get, that and why people wear AF pants etc. to xp when they could wear raketsu, master's sitabaki, republican subligar etc. I mean you can change gear in fight if you get hit, its not hard to setup a macro to do it and it works great for me.

So no you don't need cross counters but if you have alot of other really good gear, its not going to help much of anything but get you killed faster unless you have some way of defending yourself from agro.

[Death_stinger]

/clap perfect explanation to bad I am so freaking broke I cant get snipers/CC but that’s a whole diff topic but very good explanation
KamaAina.

[Cali]

Slightly off topic but, being a MNK myself, I found that without counter gears, counterstance does more harm than good, so I usually avoid using it unless I am with trustable friends and such. (I got killed by Jujitsu gi NM because I used counterstance for fun, when it was in hundred fists mode >.> )

Another point for getting Cross Counters: BC50 and any lv50 cap battles ^^ and it's always good when you use it in Dynamis, which I heard is... full of mob? So, any melee will be expected to hold a monster or 2 for a while, I guess? and with counter fully boost, you can save your team a little MP and such.

Question: Is the shadow NM ever soloable? If so, what level? If not, how should I go about asking my LS to help? I would feel bad to make them camp a few days for my sake >.<

[Redlimit]

No one will argue that CC's are not one of the better Monk H2H available, but do not feel the pressure to 'need' to buy them at level 50 Monk (even more so if Monk is your first high level job).

They are good, yes. No one expects you to have them right at 50, nor are they required. They are for the most part a luxury item - if you can afford them, go for it. If not, concentrate on the other good gear available to you. Monk gets some pretty strong equipment choices in the 50-60 range, including several other H2H weapons that will serve you fine without having CC's. Spartan Cesti has an ever-so-slightly less DPS than CC's, and the same goes for Feral Fangs and TM Hooks +2.

I bought a Scorpion Harness before I ever considered getting CC's. They were dead last on my list of things to get (as far as things that can be bought with gil went).

[Mai Ikari]

Since we're on the topic... Any suggestions for camping that shadow? Party config, level, etc?

[AkumuX]

Red put the topic back on topic, but anyways it's a lvl 63 Shadow NM. As you can imagine, he's quite interesting. Hits hard, Dimensional Death, hard time sleeping etc. Certain jobs can solo at 75. Any 2 jobs at 75 can crush him. If you mean party, probably a party of 60+ can take'm.

He's a pain to pop though, 21-24 lottery of Elvaan in his circle. No fun...

As far as Counterstance, I love using it enough that my other Monk friends call me crazy, but there are just some mobs that walk right through it. Then there are some mobs, that can barely get a hit in. This is with AF2 Boots btw. I basically counterstance when I know a mage can heal me, which is odd because I'm sure it wasn't created for that purpose.

CCs, I've had them at 53. Very nice, very strong piss the PLD off knuckles, the counter means absolutely nothing to ITs. I got my ass kicked when pulling hate that same way w/o Counter +5. It's the great dmg/delay that early on that makes them "teh winnar."

[Ian112]

Spartans are better in my opinion with some haste equip such as a BB and fuma kyahan