Monk Throwing

[imode]

monk gets improved kick attacks at 71 if my memory serves me good..

Your memory serves you not so good. It's level 72, and it comes from Melee Hose... Artifact Series 2 leg armor.

and dont mention kick attacks as something "crappy" ... put on some kungfu shoes and watch ....3 hits each couple of seconds.. dont tell me that doesnt stack...and when double attack checks it checks on each punch and the kick so...double kick would definitly add up..

Kung Fu shoes affects strength of kick attack not frequency.

Double-attack affects overall frequency of kick attacks but kick attacks cannot be performed twice per round.

3 Hits every 2 seconds is very optimistic. Monks maintain an average of around 400 delay (greater than 2 seconds) and have an increased, but not constant chance of firing a double-attack or a kick.

[Royze]

imode i would like to correct you...

you get an improved job trait...at 71 almost all jobs get an improvment, warriors get better rate of double attack and samurais get store tp...

iv read this from the brady FFXI latest release guide...i'll try to get it off my friend and verify this to you... but im pretty sure what im saying is right

[kowboy]

Originally posted by Mikeb
Seriously, who cares if Monks can't use any good ranged weapons? When I think of throwing weapons I think of Ninjas and Thieves, not Monks. No party should be forcing a Monk to pull anyway. Just about every party has a Warrior/Thief/Ninja/Darkknight/Samurai/Ranger - all of which can use ranged weapons.

Thats right, MNKs should disregard the "whos pulling" question just as the mages and bards do =P

Almost every PT I've been in since I started leveling MNK, the other WAR, DRK, THF, etc in the PT always had some lame excuse for not pulling. "I've never been here before." You'll have to the area sooner or later. "Arrows are expensive." Wooden arrows are 3 gil a piece, close to 300 gil a stack. The point is to draw the mobs attention, no need for fancy arrows. "I'm a bad puller." Practice makes perfect. If other jobs would own up to pulling, I wouldnt have to carry pebbles with me all the time.

[IpwnzuLoL!!!111]

Originally posted by ENWEH


While you may be unaware of this, DRK do not get a new ability after level 50 (which are considerably crappier than kick).

You all don't get nifty spells to play around with all the way to the lvl cap? Jeezus, I'm not even asking for anything GOOD. Just something ~situationally~ good would be nice.

Maybe like something from FFT... Stigma Magic (cures a few status ailments), or if Chakra could heal PT members marginally within a very close range, or... something. It's just that it's so easy to come up with new abilities/traits, so why is there a drought late-game?

You know what I liked from FFT? The Equip-"" traits, that let you equip a weapon/armor that your job couldn't normally equip. Not that a MNK using anything other than barehand would be all that good, but what about "Equip-Platemail" with a PLD sub *** MNK tank maybe? Jes dreamin...

[Mal]

Well, I wouldn't mind getting more abilities every now and then (Maybe that's what the NEW EXPANSION PACK is going to bring!) but I think SE is doing what they feel they should do. Monks and Ninjas now have "Subtle Blow" which lowers TP gain from enemies when the player hits. I know, I know, you want an Action Ability to call your own. Stigma Magic would certainly be nice. (I'd like to see Chakra improved so it heals those around the Monk as well.)

But looking at it from SE's point of view, I can see why Jobs don't get many abilities you can use past 50. After that point, you start picking up Subjob abilities, so it's sort of like you're getting new abilities as you further level up. They're just from other Jobs.

And while I DO want to see new abilities, I don't think it's really that big of a deal right now. Monks aren't as gimped as they're being made to sound on here.

Although from the sound of things, Counterstance sounds really effing useless.

[ENWEH]

Originally posted by IpwnzuLoL!!!111


You all don't get nifty spells to play around with all the way to the lvl cap? Jeezus, I'm not even asking for anything GOOD. Just something ~situationally~ good would be nice.

Maybe like something from FFT... Stigma Magic (cures a few status ailments), or if Chakra could heal PT members marginally within a very close range, or... something. It's just that it's so easy to come up with new abilities/traits, so why is there a drought late-game?

You know what I liked from FFT? The Equip-"" traits, that let you equip a weapon/armor that your job couldn't normally equip. Not that a MNK using anything other than barehand would be all that good, but what about "Equip-Platemail" with a PLD sub *** MNK tank maybe? Jes dreamin...

A DRK using a spell besides drain, stun, aspir, or absorb is normally a huge waste of a refresh slot.

Originally posted by GosamerWings


I mentioned the ones that were most apparent and I'm not just saying this for monks... I'm saying this for all classes learn to read before you start to type because you obviously didn't. I just used monk as my focus of my paragraph because well I am one lol...

I don't want new weapon skills or any of that I want square to fill in the gaps for all jobs that don't get anything in the high end portion of the game mainly abilites. But you can't seem to see past the fact that wanting the addition of new abilites for all jobs that lack anything for a large quanity of levels as anything but ignorance. I'm sorry if I'm not used to not looking forward to anything else but weapon skills.
So here we go again another person taking the extreem saying: "The next thing that I'll want" putting words in my mouth you just said yourself Drks don't get anything past 50 and thats what I'm talking about not just monks not just Sams not just drgs I'm talking about all of us as a whole. I'm idiotic for wanting a lil more 52+ ok... so what about Drks for wanting more 50+ or drg for wanting more after thier last ability or Sams for wanting more after Meditate.
The fact is and it stands that meeles are severly lacking abilities end games we get weapon skills and thats it. And that needs to be changed. I do care about the throwing issue and I hate to sidetrack the thread but the bigger issue is we (not just monks but all meeles need more abilites end game to set us apart from just being another slot in the party to keep the mages from taking hits. And I wish people would see that and stop trying to just say were whining because were not mages with uber high level s**t)

Funny that you would mention reading and typing because, while you can type, it is obvious that you don't do so coherently. Next time, try using a comma.

Let me point out the two quotes that bring the idea that MNK is the ONLY job important to you and that MNK should be the best:


"We need more abilties and thats very apparent. Ok so at 51 I get kick... wow what about the other 24 levels Ws .. oh great I get weapon skills. So does everyone else I not saying gime more gime more gime more I'm just saying for 22 levels I have nothing to look forward to but my war subs war cry .... wow and thats it."

"I'm not asking for some uber extreem ownages kill all ability I'm just asking for some more content between levels 51- 75 anything hell the chi ideal sounded good."

Now if you had wanted to talk about other jobs you would have included ideas for DRK, SAM, WAR, DRG, and THF.

Hyperbole is a literary device used to show how stupid something is by taking it out of proportions. Maybe you missed that English class along with the one about commas.

The fact is: DRK do not want more, DRG do not want more, SAM do not want more. The only two jobs that want more are THF and MNK. THF has a reason, they get replaced by DRK after level 60. What reason does MNK have?

Obviously you're going to come back and say "WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD WANT MORE!" But you won't anymore, because I said you'd do it and you don't want what I say you'll do to be what you actually do, follow? So the answer is: we don't want more because we understood that we were not essential to a group, were not on SE's "to-do" list, and we, most of all, understood that later on we are superfluous. Whether you realized it or not, you understood this as soon as you started waiting 4 hours for a pickup group. The fact is you ARE whining. There is a new expansion coming out, why don't you wait for that and THEN bitch about how much you suck.

You remind me of those gothic kids, the ones that are like "I hate life" but are really too scared to commit suicide. Sure, you whine a lot and complain, but when it comes to crunch time all you're going to do is attention cuts.

[Royze]

*inner voice screaming*
why the hell does people make such a big deal out of commas and keep track of grammer mistake when it doesnt have anything to do with the content of what he said...

screw the idea of being "fully coherent", I, my self have a problem being coherent enough to people, I don't think those dots and commas really hurt what being said...the guy made a point and he made it clear so why bit*h about that, and talking about coherency or whatever they call it, you should pay attention to what the title of this thread says and pull out ur fights with people else where..

stop jack'in the thread,

.02 gils

[JexIntrepid]

Hey Enweh,

if you weren't such a jackass, you would probably notice that in his consequent posts, he did intend to include other jobs.

Facts:
Dragoons DO WANT more abilities. I dunno what world u live in, but do a /sea all drg 60-75, tell me how many aren't complaining.
Thieves DO WANT more, yes, you're right. cuz their role is pretty much useless. I think their triple attack should be boosted or something. Samurais DO WANT more abilities. Again, you must be a fool to really believe that there isn't anything wrong with those two advanced jobs (drg, sam). They aren't even great at what they do. (Rngs build TP much faster than Sam still, even after TP nerf, with accuracy problems, samurais still have problems getting their TP for 2x sc). Dragoons just dont even deal enough dmg to use super jump with their weak ws.

Yeah....more abilities from subjobs, but when u really look at things, a mnk is really only good with thf, and war as subjobs, so their abilities to 37 are mediocre...(thf gets robbed, i know =p)

If maybe S-E made more subjobs viable for mnk, then i would not complain. However, to think that by adding a kick in a few attacks once in awhile is enough, with the occasional double attack, and berserk, warcry, that's just absurd. I could easily think of new abilities that would make the game still very balanced. The same can be said for alot of other dmg dealing classes.

Samurai. what's your main option for subjob? war. some ppl say rng, but that's farfetched and costs alot. Thief is ok for a few lvls but in the end, war is the best choice. So i'm stuck with 3 abilities for my main samurai. Then berserk, provoke, warcry, defender. Being that samurai is seen as a dmg dealer, provoke is useless, and so is defender. So basically 2 cool abilities...yeah...that's great! (oh that's called sarcasm to put it in your 'uber english class terms). ALL THE WAY until lvl 75. wow...taht's pure trash if u ask me. every job gets a ws, so that's no different. Drks and plds get magic spells at least, and Drk magic is not a waste of refresh, they can easily cast mp drain spell to get their MP back.

I'm not asking for something uber, i'm not asking for something expensive either. Just a decent ability that makes the game more fun. Either that or make different subjobs more viable to switch the gameplay.

Warriors...their great abilities are exploited by any dmg dealing job. Their only true strength is that they can play a versatile role in the party. Every dmg dealer and their grandma subs war for berserk, warcry, double attack. (provoke is just for earlier on, defender eh..) So that pretty much leaves war with aggressor, which is fine, but doesn't really help once they're passed lvl 45. What else do they have to look forward to?

Dragoons...oh dont even let me get started on this job. Wyvern abilities? pretty much useless if you sub the dragoon's priority subjob "war" which is the only one that'll get you in a party, provided you even get looked at. Offensive attacks that do crap dmg as u increase in lvl, and i'd like to see dragoons have more control over the abilities their wyvern does. Drg/whm is a decent one, where u get cure status breath, but still...



Dragoons get jump, high jump, superjump (totally pointless if you can't draw enough hate....at least make it do dmg on the way down). And.....


I rest my case.

Again, EVERY JOB gets a new ws. It's weaponbased. However, some jobs just need a few more abilities to make the game and lvling to 75 worthwhile. Enhancing our already-set abilities with AF is nice, but after repeated xp grinding, i'd be happier with a new ability to look forward to as well.

Oh, and from what i hear, dmg dealers become pretty useless in comparison to tanks and blms in HNMs fights...go figure...we dont have much to offer except ws that deal crap dmg and just build HNM TP.:sweat: there are ways around it, but if we had better abilities, dmg dealers would have a better set role in those fights.

[GosamerWings]

-Sighs-

/offtopic
Ok... so I didn't use commas.. god shoot me now...
last I checked I'm 20 in art school and no longer writing essays so what does commas have to do with the point I am trying to make.

Anyways.... The point of what I said was that I wanted meeles (again I'll say this not just monks) to get more abilites in the later half of the game. I hadn't come back because well I've been trying to catch up to my 65 ls members and being a Monk... (the only one in my ls might I add) doesn't make that easy.

But I'm sure you'll pick apart my post again and obliterate my point which is that meeles need more abilites. Yes I do wait 4 hours - 2 days inbetween groups but I deal with it I don't see many parts of my post where I wasn't stating a point. I'm asking for new skills after 50+ and peopel keep making seem like I'm just whining for my job alone. Ah well.

(And whats that no commas.. hmm let me fill em in for ya)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Happy. K just checking. Alright I'm going to play now.
Oh almost forgot.
/on topic

On the issue of throwing two nights ago I was put into a group with a pld/war, a monk/war, me monk/war, a brd/whm, and two other mages (thier always on annon so I had no clue what they were but one was a whm/?? something :sweat: ) And we looked at eachother and wondered, "who was going to pull" the pld ended up pulling 12 pebbles just don't do it.

As I stated in one of my other posts some inexpensive stackable pulling item would be nice. Of course I know someone would say we should of grabed someone that could pull without provoke, pebble, or chi blast since thats a 3 min cool down tech and theres no way to keep the chain with it without using voke.

But I didn't make the party, I was just invited. But eh what can you do but girn and bare with it and keep sending S-E ideals. ^.^

[Rossb2k]

Just for the record...

I've been 71 for a few days now and have seen no change in the frequency or damage of my kick attacks...

Somewhere along the line Chakra was given the ability to erase blindness paralyze and poison... after fighting bones and being afflicted with those status effects, I used chakra and they were erased... happens every time.

If anything, monks are too powerful.. we are given a rediculous advantage over bones, that just happen to be the mob of choice 65+. Asuran Fists does such rediculous damage, I can touch a mob and see it explode.. I can see why Japanese players think the job needs to be nerfed somewhat. Only rangers can even come close to touching MNK damage post 65... and parties would much rather have spread out damage that doesn't steal hate as often, than having a RNG do dmg all at once and dies cause he gets too much hate and can't take two hits...

As for throwing... who cares.. we can't have everything. Sometimes you just need to settle for what you have.. and what we have is a job that blows others away.. so quit the arguing

[Mal]

As for the comma argument, it's nice to show a little bit of "pride" in your language. I don't mean all going "YEAH!! ENGLISH!!! IT OWNS!!" but moreso putting to use the stuff you learned in school.

Believe it or not, abbreviating everything, using lazy shorthand, and not utilizing proper spelling or grammar makes you, and hence your opinion, look poor. (Naturally, everybody makes mistakes, but that's not what I'm talking about.)
It bewilders me. Everybody on these kind of forums wants to make their voices heard and let everybody know what they think, but they don't want to make it any easier to read.

BACK ON TOPIC...

I really don't think Monks need any new abilities, as you get abilities from your Subjobs after 50 and such. I think that's quite enough.
I'm sure in the new Expansion that comes out, new abilities will most likely be added to most, if not all, of the Jobs. In that case, fine, great. But I really don't see why Monks NEED new abilities RIGHT NOW.

[Taoist]

Originally posted by Rossb2k
As for throwing... who cares.. we can't have everything. Sometimes you just need to settle for what you have.. and what we have is a job that blows others away.. so quit the arguing

/agreed
I play MNK because it's the job that interested me; and for those post 2O~ish Lv's of glory.
I rather not get any other abilities ever than get nerfed ;_;
But, the Chakra thing sounds awesome!

[Mal]

I didn't know Chakra cures ailments - that's awesome. I still would like to see it become a group heal. Nothing major, maybe just have it heal a little bit of HP to everybody; it doesn't even have to cure ailments on them. In doing so it would help give the White Mage a break every now and then, and would probably generate some hate onto the Monk.

In doing so, the Monk would be partial healer-partial backup tank by just expanding this ability a little more.

Just a thought.

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

Originally posted by ENWEH

A DRK using a spell besides drain, stun, aspir, or absorb is normally a huge waste of a refresh slot.

Yay, then we can throw out counterstance. So how soon do we stop getting active abilities now?


Really, I'm not saying that MNK needs new abilities because it's not good enough. I'm saying that we NEED new toys later in the game to keep it fun. I'm sick of hearing the sub-job argument for one simple reason: I chose MNK because I wanted to use MNK abilities-- not so that I could look forward to WAR/THF abilities later on that I had while I was painfully raising my SUBjob. Point being, I wouldn't say that I want other jobs to get new lower level abilities so that I could sub them... I want MNK abilities, much like I'm sure DRG would like DRG abilties, and SAM would like SAM abilities (well, I know from xp that SAM will settle for just about anything at this point, but w/e :sweat: Med at 30 being the last and only thing to look forward to is not cool)

And on-topic, I think that MNKs would be great pullers if they had something to pull with, and for that reason I'm not desperate to be that much more useful, though it does stink to not be able to pull and be confined to the barracks, so to speak. Pebbles stacking to 99 works for me

[Taoist]

Aye, the pebble thing sounds very reasonable.
Those things should stack to 99 seeing as how all arrows can stack to 99 then into quivers which also can be stacked to 99, I believe.

The Chakra being able to cure others... hmm... I smell hate.
Our WS cause too much hate as it is, so I don't think adding a MNK mini-mini-Benediction would help.

Stack those pebbles into pouches or something, similar to quivers for arrows.