Do Monks (or any Melee) matter for the END GAME?

[JayblahX]

In all the past MMORPGs I've played, I usually cared most about the end game; fighting boss encounters and going on raids to take down gigantic foes.

This game has its share of end game encounters like the various HNMs. I've gotten the impression from various people that melees in the end game do not matter all that much. This makes an impact on me, as I am choosing to play Monk/Warrior as my preferred race.

I do not want to struggle to get to 75, only to find out that HNM-Linkshells don't want me.

From what I've been told , melees do laughable damage to HNMs, but are merely there to build TP so that our darling Black Mages can magicburst. Some things never change; Wizards were always the prime neccessity in end-game damage dealing in EverQuest, but melees such as Monk and Rogue were able to do good damage as well.

Is it true? Is FFXI's end-game all about the Black Mages and a Ninja tank with Thieves keeping aggro on him (and healers/support, of course)?

[Griddlecake]

Well, what I have heard, is that MNKs are suprisingly one of the most better endgames. They're well loved, because, near the end of the game most of the enemies you'll encounter is skeletons. And of course, they do get Ashuran Fists in the end too...

Now I just hope that that multihit TP nerf doesn't hurt it, unlike what the rumors have been saying...

[Thark601]

Yes from what I've heard monks are the melee of choice end-game... even before Asuran Fists, 100 fists is one of the most damaging 2-hrs... spamming fists like crazy = lot's of tp = lot's of weapon skills, and i'd doubt that Asuran Fists would be considered "laughable damage" even to a hnm

[JayblahX]

No offense, but I'm really looking for a response from DJPlaeskool and others that have experienced HNMs first hand.

Perhaps a moderator would kindly move this to the general area so I can get other very high-level melees (like Awntawn) of other classes to reply more readily...

I heard that HNMs have uber defense, so you miss alot and/or hit for little, which makes TP gain not easy. I wasn't considering the high-end XP grounds where you fight bones as end-game, because I know Monks own bones. I strictly mean boss encounters. I think Level 3 Renkeis remain damaging to HNMs, but am I right in that BLM's magic bursting is the main way to fight HNMs?

Hundred Fist is a 2hr, so I'm not counting on being able to do well on a boss encounter every 2hrs and be gimp the next 2hrs...

I have these worries because of what people have said, and respected members like Awntawn state in their own guides (check out DRK forum stickied guide) that melees aren't useful versus HNMs...

[imode]

The main role of a melee character, in an exp or HNM party, is to put a body between the monster and a mage. You can never really call anyone useless, because even if they're attacks are like mosquito bites compared to a mages firaga III, they're the only thing that keeps the mage alive.

That being said, monk/warrior at level 75 is probably one of the strongest classes. Unlike other damage dealing melee classes like dark knight and dragoon, their effectiveness is is based completely on their physical output of their fists alone, and not by some debuff spells or some easily owned wyvern. A lot of jp non-monk players are actually complaining that monk should be weakened to balance things out. At level 75, there's no reason for you to be dissapointed, because musou is probably one of the most powerful weaponskills in the game.

[JexIntrepid]

STupid jp non-monks! Now after all the crap that we monks had to suffer, they want to weaken us?!

Geez, before the high lvl bones we weren't wanted ever. Now that we kick butt, (there's still not alot of high lvl monks out there), they want to balance us out? How about they balance rangers first, or blackmages or bards, or white mages, or warriors, or darknights?

:mad: (i'm not really mad, but i like to put those icons up)

[Izual]

I can tell you for sure that multi-hit weaponskills (asuran fists included) are virtually useless against HNM. However, I don't think melees are useless against them. From my experience with the older HNM's, my damage-per-hit was about the same as on leveling mobs. Accuracy is another story, they can be pretty hard to hit. I'm a big fan of /thf because it gives you that guaranteed hit for high damage once you manage to get enough tp.

You probably won't match a blm's damage, but that doesn't mean you can't contribute to the fight. And from the choice of melees, it seems drk and mnk are the most desirable for HNM, so you picked a good class

[DJplaeskool]

For leveling, monks have a vital role in the "endgame"
as already described by most above...

Against tougher HNMs, mnks are not very versitile...
We're hard pressed to hit, and multi-hit WSs are a big no-no (you don't want to give the HNM more tp than is absolutely necessary)...
Most melee either:
1) Equip 1H sword for Spirits Within
2) Sub /THF for fuiidama only attack
(Either case, get TP from either SAM ability or opo opo + sleep pots)
For big stuff (Tu'Lia Gods, K Behe, etc), I normally go into 気埔弾 (chi ball) mode. Hook up all the +MND stuff I can, eat roast mushroom, get +MND echyudo from BRD, Tameru up to Attack 999, chi ball for between 250-700 damage.

[JayblahX]

As I feared, these replies are in tune with what I had heard, and it makes me sad.

I can't believe how stupid Square Enix was in designing this game. They gave non-tank melees a goddamn struggle from 12-75 to find a party, and what happens when we get to 75?

We find out we have to be bitches to the BLM, doing weak attacks that we never even subbed for, not able to use our badass WeaponSkills...

I should've known better I guess. I've played MMORPGs for years and every one I've played had an endgame which amounted to melees being bitches to the magic casters. What the hell... I'm so close to just leveling my Taru Taru BLM and never looking back.

:mad:

[frogurtx]

For endgame leveling monk's are pretty much hands down the best melee job in terms of dps. You will actually get picked for parties over a Blm, in most cases.

Most of the endgame, you will be leveling off bone type monsters, and this is where Mnk shine. You will be easily doing 80+ damage a hit on IT's. Now that doesnt sound like too much, but factor in 2 punches, a kick, and a double hit (with a war sub), your going to be grinding your enemies to make your bread.

So don't get discouraged, you can still toss out a nice ha-do-ken at the HNMs.

[Mikeb]

As for Monks not being useful because of giving too much TP to the mobs - the Relic armour has a ton of "less TP given to mob" effects on it, as well this new job trait "subtle blow" might also reduce the TP given to a mob... These might make Monks alot more useful against HNM...

[fuz]

Hmm, a lot of these posts are based on the reason that monks are highly wanted because they do lots of damage to bones, but this is not an answer to the question at hand.

In HNM fights, mnk is not really wanted--or I should say ideal.

Drk is the usual wanted melee damge dealer for several reasons. If nothing else, at least they have stun, which is a lifesaver against charged attacks, and if well timed, a counterattack from a WS on the target. Drk can also use a 1hs quite well, probably the 2nd best in the game behind pld--which is for spirits within. (Also, the high damage 1hs are war/pld/drk only.) Drk also hits hard, for large amounts of damage instead of many weaker hits. This has the effect of being able to pierce defense more easily, and the fewer attacks mean that the HMN you're fighting gains less TP (drk gain TP slow as well). HMN TP attacks are extremely nasty, and are very much worth considering when picking your melees. Last I can think of, drk subs thf very well, and is highly effective with spinslash and cross reaper, so not only can they do damage, but hold hate too.

Monk does lots of brute force damage from regular attacks, but they offer little else, and have a downside of making the HNM gain TP quickly.

At the end of the day however, melee damage dealers are NOT necessary for most HMN hunts. Most would prefer a few tanks, and the rest as just blm+the usual support. Even ranger has acc trouble against HNMs, making them less suited than a mage.

I woudn't consider relic armor at this point. It is just ultra rare, and even many hardcore of the hardcore players I know don't have a single piece, much less a full set.

[JexIntrepid]

so we just sit on our butts and boost(8x) then fire chi blast? Rinse, repeat?

Hey...i have an idea S-E, why not give ALL DAMN MELEES MORE ACTIVE ABILITIES POST lvl 50?

I've noticed only drk has magic that they can use post lvl 50.
Every other DD has nothing to look forward to except ws.

I would love to see a monk get more chi attacks later lvls, instead of counterstance (which i hear can make a mnk tank well wit cross counters)

I'd love to see a Dragoon use his Wyvern for a Bahamut-like weaponskill (the one from FF7 where Bahamut Zero or something did that huge non-elemental breath attack from so far)

I'd love to see a Samurai be able to use a Soul Blade attack, where it doesn't give TP to the mob, but helps them gain TP, and yet still does good dmg. Oh, I guess Hobaku is fine for stunning but we COULD use more than just meditate (lvl 30 ability) when i'm FRIGGIN" lvl 75!!!

I'd love to see Drk magic get less resisted.

I'd love to see a ninja actually be used for dmg dealing with Throwing WS, with special effects on different ninja stars, powders, etc.


Yeah....12/mo and i can't even be certain that i'll enjoy my endgame, esp. once i hit the lvl cap.

What are all dmg dealers that reach lvl 75 supposed to wait until you guys raise the lvl cap more to take advantage of other subjobs or something?

Still sounds very boring to be useless and have no new abilities post lvl 45 for most dmg dealers....

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

mnk is the most unwanted vs HNM
and mnk 2 hour damage = 1 spell from blm (and mnk 2 hour give HNM toooo much tp)

i know thats gay but thats how its

and mnk give HNM too much tp
i dont think you want to see HNM use his tp every 1m


the good HNM ls know how to kill HNM fast
all what you need to do is keep the hate (thats mean 6 pld/nin/war)

and let all the blms nuke


i hate S-E

[Halato]

JayblahX,

If it really bothers you that badly, check out Dark Age of Camelot. In the end game, casters simply can't land spells on Epic Monsters. I gave that game up for a lot of other reasons... but if you feel so strongly about I'd say give it a whirl.

Hal